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Jeremy and the future

(449 Posts)
yggdrasil Mon 26-Sept-16 13:20:26

That's it. Jeremy has won the leadership challenge with an even larger majority. Now can we please get down to opposing the Tories austerity measures that have nearly destroyed all our welfare society.
I don't think he is 'unelectable'! Listening to Radio Somerset this morning (not exactly a Labour area) the majority of callers were delighted. There were a few who quoted the media and seemed to think it was the end of the country, but most were saying they now had something to vote for at last.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8os-nKuoM3o

rosesarered Wed 28-Sept-16 13:56:41

Thank you Beam smile and for the record, my voting is exactly that, mine GG
Got it?

Anniebach Wed 28-Sept-16 14:06:15

A spokesperson has said Corbyn is not concerned with immigration numbers .

He has just won votes for UKIP

Gracesgran Wed 28-Sept-16 14:10:58

You either have memory problems roses or you have chosen to distance yourself from the truth. The previous conversation (when you chose to report me for commenting on your voting) was here

If you go to Fri 10-Jun-16 22:08:38 you will see my quotes from what you had previously said. These were referred to GNHQ in reply to your report. They agreed you had said how you intended to vote. I may even have the emails if you would like your memory jogged a little more.

Of course your voting is personal - until you declare it to the rest of the world via GN roses. I certainly didn't make you do that so I would get off your high horse if I was you.

Now, perhaps, we can get back to the thread.

whitewave Wed 28-Sept-16 14:25:25

Are you listening to BBC2? They are journalists who are simply reiterating what we have been saying all morning.

The Tories agree and understand the issues but are too frit to say so. Corbyn has the spine to tell the truth -as he usually does- and intends to change the focus back to the fact that the North are where they are because of the economic climate since the disaster that was osbornomics and not because of immigration.

rosesarered Wed 28-Sept-16 14:30:58

What delightful posts GracesGran you really are scraping the barrel now.I seem to remember about three of your unpleasant posts were deleted in that particular thread....do give it up!

Jalima Wed 28-Sept-16 14:39:15

They agreed you had declared you were moving from your previously declared attachment to the Lib Dems and that it was you who said you were going to vote Conservative
shock
Oh my giddy Aunt
Do you mean that GNHQ keep tabs on our voting habits, as well as writing articles about us in the Daily Mail and other daily publications?
That sounds quite sinister, Cari please tell me it's not true!!

rosesarered Wed 28-Sept-16 14:44:38

Don't worry Jalima they don't do any such thing grin it's only GG who is obsessed with voting habits!

Jalima Wed 28-Sept-16 14:47:16

Gordon and the Gold:
www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-07-10/gordon-brown-sold-britain%E2%80%99s-gold-artificially-low-prices-bail-out-large-ameri
This is what had happened on an enormous scale by early 1999. One globally significant US bank in particular is understood to have been heavily short on two tonnes of gold, enough to call into question its solvency if redemption occurred at the prevailing price.
^Goldman Sachs, which is not understood to have been significantly short on gold itself, is rumoured to have approached the Treasury to explain the situation through its then head of commodities Gavyn Davies, later chairman of the BBC and married to Sue Nye who ran Brown’s private office.
Faced with the prospect of a global collapse in the banking system, the Chancellor took the decision to bail out the banks by dumping Britain’s gold, forcing the price down and allowing the banks to buy back gold at a profit, thus meeting their borrowing obligations.^

Ana Wed 28-Sept-16 14:49:28

Yes, Gordon's canny sleight-of-hand trick.

Anniebach Wed 28-Sept-16 14:49:56

Jalima, did you not know I am a spy for the Tories according to a Corbynite fanatic here

, I confess my friend the PM telephones me every day desperate to know what is being said on GN

LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Wed 28-Sept-16 14:52:12

Hello all - just dropping in to confirm that, no, we absolutely do not keep tabs on your voting habits! We would never pass comment on users' political affiliations - that's not what we're here for.

daphnedill Wed 28-Sept-16 14:55:13

Britain was right to sell off its pile of gold

The continued run of the gold price is a global investment sensation. Recently it broke the $1,500 an ounce barrier for the first time, 30 per cent higher than a year ago. Surely this lays bare the extraordinary foolishness of Gordon Brown’s announcement, 12 years ago this week, that the UK Treasury would sell off some of Britain’s gold holdings?

Actually, no. On this one occasion, Mr Brown’s decision was the right one. Let speculators go gambling on a shiny metal, if they want to. For most governments in rich countries, holding gold remains a largely pointless activity.

With hindsight, of course, Mr Brown could have gained a better price by waiting. At current rates, the $3.5bn the UK received selling bullion between 1999 and 2002 would have been closer to $19bn. The difference at current exchange rates, by the way, would be enough to cover a little over three weeks of the UK’s expected public deficit for the fiscal year 2010-2011 – not negligible, but hardly pivotal.

Mr Brown, his critics say, must be kicking himself. Similarly, the French no doubt still suffer sleepless nights for prematurely taking profit on their Louisiana claim by offloading it to Thomas Jefferson in 1803. And had I put my life savings on Ballabriggs at 20-1 before last month’s Grand National, I’d be writing this on a solid platinum laptop while being sprayed with pink champagne in my new beachfront villa in Barbados.

That is the way of things with speculative assets. The truth is that no one has a good explanation why the gold price is currently where it is. The familiar story – a hedge against inflation or government insolvency – is flatly contradicted by the low yields and inflation expectations in US Treasury bonds. The volatility of gold (and other precious metals – witness the huge drop in silver prices this week) merely underlines the risk of holding it. The $1,500 landmark is a nominal price: had governments listened to the bullion fanatics and loaded up on gold in the last big bull market in the early 1980s, they would still be waiting to earn their money back in real terms.

More substantively, criticism of Mr Brown’s sale also betrays a misunderstanding of why a country such as the UK has gold at all.

In common with most rich nations, the function of British foreign exchange reserves is not for the government to manage wealth on behalf of the country. British citizens do that themselves. The UK does not have a sovereign wealth fund that aims to maximise returns, and nor should it. It is not a big net oil and gas exporter such as Norway – UK net foreign exchange reserves are about $40bn, equivalent to 2 per cent of nominal gross domestic product, while Norway’s sovereign fund has $525bn, equivalent to almost 140 per cent of its GDP.

Nor does the UK pile up foreign assets by persistently selling its own currency to manipulate the exchange rate, as does China. It is notable that the much-vaunted official purchases of gold over the past year are mainly by countries such as China and Russia – and, to a lesser extent, Mexico – with big excess reserves.

UK reserves are there mainly for precautionary reasons – to intervene in currency markets to stop a run on sterling or to pursue monetary policy objectives. Yet gold is badly suited for this task because, despite recent interest from private investors, a large proportion of global above-ground stocks – 18 per cent in 2010 – is still held by governments.

Any attempt to sell off large amounts quickly risks driving down the world price, which is what happened after Mr Brown’s announcement in 1999, leading to an international agreement between central banks to restrict further sales.

A precautionary reserve asset held for intervention purposes whose price is likely to fall the instant it is used to intervene is singularly pointless. Of course, central banks selling into a rising market like today’s may not have the same impact as in 1999, but who knows what demand for gold will be like if and when the intervention is needed?

There remains only one other main reason for governments to hold gold – to set monetary policy by linking the national currency to the gold price. This remains as bad an idea as ever. It would have meant sharply tightening monetary policy since the fall of 2008. This would have been madness.

Private investors, and sovereign wealth funds out to make returns, can punt their money on what they like. If they choose to plonk it down on the blackjack table of the commodity markets, that is their decision. But there is no good reason that governments that hold reserves for purely precautionary purposes should feel the need to follow them.

www.ft.com/content/5788dbac-7680-11e0-b05b-00144feabdc0

mcem Wed 28-Sept-16 14:55:41

Speaking of testing theories .....to put it in very simplistic terms, it was Keynsian economics that 'cured' the great depression of the 30's ( following that major banking collapse ) so that theory is tried, tested and conclusively successful.
I can see no argument against increasing employment, improving infrastructure including housing and investing cash in the NHS. Given that interest ratees are at an all-time low this would be an excellent time to borrow and invest thus.

Jalima Wed 28-Sept-16 14:56:22

He has just won votes for UKIP
My thought exactly on hearing that this morning anniebach

Perhaps Corbyn needs to get out and speak to real people in Labour constituencies, not surrounded constantly by his acolytes.

Gracesgran Wed 28-Sept-16 14:57:46

No Jalima. roses had sent a 'poor me' report to GNHQ saying I was commenting on how she voted when she had not said herself. All I did was point out that she had. She had now put on a 'poor me' post saying much the same. All I have done is point out her post is not the truth. GNHQ are not in the least interested in our voting preferences and, to be honest, neither am I; I was just repeating roses own comment.

If you have declared on GN how you intend to vote it is not only GNHQ that will know Jalima. This is, after all an open forum.

Jalima Wed 28-Sept-16 14:58:14

we absolutely do not keep tabs on your voting habits! We would never pass comment on users' political affiliations - that's not what we're here for.
Thank goodness for that Lucy smile
(I didn't think seriously for one minute that you did, but the implication was there in another post.)

daphnedill Wed 28-Sept-16 14:59:53

Do you want to borrow my brick wall, mcem? Bashing my head against it is sometimes good therapy. hmm

Jalima Wed 28-Sept-16 15:00:46

Mr Brown, his critics say, must be kicking himself.
I think the allegation was that he artificially forced the price down to save world banks.
Whether the crisis would have been worse or better had he not done that we will never know.

daphnedill Wed 28-Sept-16 15:03:42

I think you're confusing two different crises.

The UK's gold was sold long before the 2008 credit crunch, caused by the failure of the US sub-prime market.

Jalima Wed 28-Sept-16 15:07:19

GG oh well, I have declared that I am a 'floating voter' skipping happily through the tulips in May. I don't care who knows it. I don't like extremes.

dd it does go two ways; other people may feel that they are having their heads bashed because they don't agree with everything certain posters state; constantly stating a political view does not end up with everyone agreeing with you (by you I mean 'one', not you in particular). Otherwise we would have a totalitarian state (even then not everyone agrees, but are too frightened usually to dissent).

LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Wed 28-Sept-16 15:08:45

Phew, Jalima - I was worried you'd all start thinking we were sitting about taking notes grin

Jalima Wed 28-Sept-16 15:12:47

I think you're confusing two different crises.
I'm not confused, unless Gordon's advisers at the time were confused.

This is what had happened on an enormous scale by early 1999. One globally significant US bank in particular is understood to have been heavily short on two tonnes of gold, enough to call into question its solvency if redemption occurred at the prevailing price.

Goldman Sachs, which is not understood to have been significantly short on gold itself, is rumoured to have approached the Treasury to explain the situation through its then head of commodities Gavyn Davies, later chairman of the BBC and married to Sue Nye who ran Brown’s private office.

Faced with the prospect of a global collapse in the banking system, the Chancellor took the decision to bail out the banks by dumping Britain’s gold, forcing the price down and allowing the banks to buy back gold at a profit, thus meeting their borrowing obligations.

Apparently he got rid of the gold at a low price to enable these banks to buy the gold for their coffers and prevent a banking crisis.

The 2008 banking crisis was due to sub-prime mortgages, started in America, and makes the previous sale of gold by Gordon Brown to world banks at an artificially low price look like a futile exercise in the end.

Jalima Wed 28-Sept-16 15:13:39

I should have said the first happened in 1999.

trisher Wed 28-Sept-16 15:14:28

Day6
Your post has so many inaccuracies I can only repudiate a few.
Firstly no one has proposed that children should be educated in mixed ability classes, what is proposed is that all children should be offered the same opportunities in education and only a comprehensive system can do this. Grammar schools never really worked and there is considerable evidence to show this.
Secondly my mother was raised in the 1930s and suffered considerably more deprivation than any one in the 1950s. I cannot remember when I was growing up any working families who could not afford to feed their children but needed a foodbank, nor were there people sleeping rough on the street. I do remember the shock of the film "Cathy Come Home" and the determination that no family should be in that position again.
Yes the NHS is expensive but it requires commitment to fund it properly and any idea that this government is that can easily be contradicted by the huge top-down reorganisation that cost a fortune and is still on-going, and the dispute with the junior doctors.
This government believes in a low-tax economy where public services are cut to the minimum, the natural result of this is that the poor and disadvantaged will suffer. It is a concept that many of us find distasteful to say the least, but I can see that some find this quite acceptable. If this is the case that's fine but saying that circumstances cannot be changed and we must accept these things is not true. We have an alternative it may require the better off to pay more in taxes but personally I would rather do that and have proper social care.

daphnedill Wed 28-Sept-16 15:16:02

Maybe people could 're-educate' themselves (no need for an external provider), in order to formulate more informed opinions. I have never claimed to be right, but it's frustrating not to be proved wrong.

PS. Gordon Brown's sale of gold did temporarily cause the price of gold to go down, but it's hardly a significant factor in today's economy. Privatising and selling off public utilities has had a much greater effect.