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Brexit and power to the people

(437 Posts)
whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 08:18:55

Really interesting court case and day 1 of "The Royal Prerogative"

It basically boils down to whether a minister -in this case Amino 1 - can remove rights established by an act of parliament.

It raises questions of "fundamental constitutional importance about the limits of the power of the executive"

Pannick, QC for the challenger, said " this court is not concerned with the political wisdom of withdrawal" "The government was wrong to suggest the legal challenge was merely camouflage to prevent Brexit"

Pannick's client the court was advised had again received threats, abuse and insults.

A further QC - representing the people
Argued" the constitution of our parliamentary democracy, unwritten as it is , is predicated on the sovereignty of parliament and the courts working as arbiter. Notification of withdrawal leads to the removal of the rights of UK citizens.
Chambers QC argued that the referendum did not replace the UK system of parliamentary democracy"
If the government triggered A50 it would be setting itself up as "de facto legislature"
This is a case about what is legally required, not what is legally expedient.

Good ain't it?

whitewave Tue 06-Dec-16 21:42:55

grin the Cabinet of incompetence

durhamjen Tue 06-Dec-16 22:57:00

Unfortunately, it's all ours.
Not one of the last three justice secretaries has known anything about the law, which seems strange, as so many lawyers become MPs. You'd think the government would be able to find one, at least!

durhamjen Tue 06-Dec-16 23:36:22

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/06/supreme-court-justices-subdued-in-face-of-a-pannick-attack-gina-miller-barrister-article-50

whitewave Wed 07-Dec-16 15:24:42

Scottish QC giving representation against the government at the moment. I missed this mornings -too busy.

whitewave Thu 08-Dec-16 11:58:06

EU citizens representative ( that's us folks!) challenging the government at the moment. A female!!!!

granjura Thu 08-Dec-16 16:32:37

The naïvity and incredulity of Brexiters about 'power to the people' is mind boggling. Most of our power/energy has been sold down the river to the Frenc, Germans and many more.
And today vast sections of our oil supply and energy has been sold to the Chinese and Qatar - where they will have us totally and literally 'up over a barrel'. This making 150m for our coffers, and 4 BILLION for the shareholders.

POWER to the people indeed sad

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/national-grid-sells-shares-china-qatar-investors-a7463256.html?cmpid=facebook-post

whitewave Thu 08-Dec-16 16:45:10

That's one way of looking at it gran

granjura Thu 08-Dec-16 16:55:00

which other way is there? Facts are facts.

petra Thu 08-Dec-16 17:26:45

granjura Thanks for that information. I'm sure that there are many of us ignoramous brexiters who were completely unaware of that not
But thanks for sharing anyway, just in case one of us has been living on another planet for the past 20 yrs.

durhamjen Thu 08-Dec-16 17:31:41

Just put that on the Thersa May thread. Hadn't realised you'd mentioned it on here, granjura.
I am sure the government could have stopped it.
Exactly what do Brexiteers want to take back?
There is nothing left. Would like to hear one of them say they wish to take back control of the NHS.

granjura Thu 08-Dec-16 18:09:35

ah dear petra - I am glad you are aware - but for the life of me cannot understand how anyone could possibly consider losing all control on all our utilities and energy sources to give us 'our power and independence back'. But please, do enlighten me as I am totally unable to 'get it'.

durhamjen Thu 08-Dec-16 18:25:31

It's actually very worrying, granjura, when you think of the problems Qatar is having building football stadia. All those builders being killed. No health and safety or human rights. Same with China and anything to do with power. How did Australia get involved with those two human rights abusers?

durhamjen Thu 08-Dec-16 18:54:18

This whole court case could have been avoided if Theresa May had listened to and taken notice of Thornberry and Starmer in October.

labourlist.org/2016/10/thornberry-and-starmers-brexit-letter-to-david-davis/

whitewave Thu 08-Dec-16 19:18:09

I am quite pleased that this has been aired actually as hopefully it will advance our constitution a tad out of the medieval.

durhamjen Thu 08-Dec-16 19:29:42

How many lawyers does it take to write a constitution?
It was easier for the Americans in the pre long distance communication era.
Round about the American Civil war, the first undersea cable was laid between the UK and America. Could come in useful in a pub quiz. Actually, the cable broke a few times, as they were laying it from England to the US, or US to England. Eventually, they decided to start at both ends and meet in the middle, and that one worked.

JessM Fri 09-Dec-16 12:07:05

Well speaking of cables, my DH was telling me that in the storm a few weeks ago a significant proportion of the undersea cables that join us to the continent were ripped up (possible by a ship dragging its anchor) and that there is some concern about our capacity in the coming winter. There is also damage between UK and Ireland.

www.ft.com/content/52e957a6-b64a-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62

durhamjen Sat 10-Dec-16 00:12:18

That'll be fun. A fortnight ago my estate had no electricity, a problem at the substation. They are still sending us letters asking for proof of any equipment that was damaged, televisions, computers, etc. One house needed the fire brigade.
At the same time, there were similar problems in haqlf a dozen other locations in the North East.
Fun if that gets repeated over the country.

durhamjen Sun 11-Dec-16 14:51:18

Another challenge to Brexit, saying that article 50 is not the end of it. It should be possible to challenge it.
Crowdfunded by an economist.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-ireland-irish-high-court-article-50-jo-maugham-a7468081.html

Anniebach Sun 11-Dec-16 15:37:21

The day following the vote Corbyn said Article 50 must be invoked immediately , the people have made their decision , we must respect that result

granjura Sun 11-Dec-16 16:01:35

petra? please and thank you.

durhamjen Sun 11-Dec-16 16:35:56

tompride.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/sorry-brexiters-youre-in-the-minority-now-respect-the-wishes-of-the-british-people-and-remain/

Ana Sun 11-Dec-16 16:39:48

Oh, so the referendum was pointless because the result was WRONG, according to sulky Remainers. No mention of respecting Brexiters' wishes, I notice...

durhamjen Sun 11-Dec-16 16:44:20

www.businessinsider.com/brexit-vote-regret-leave-margin-victory-2016-10?IR=T

Ana Sun 11-Dec-16 16:57:09

Strange, no one's asked me...or anyone I know, for that matter!

durhamjen Sun 11-Dec-16 23:08:58

Really? You've asked all the people you know whether they've been asked questions about Brexit?
I have better things to talk to them about.