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Brexit and power to the people

(437 Posts)
whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 08:18:55

Really interesting court case and day 1 of "The Royal Prerogative"

It basically boils down to whether a minister -in this case Amino 1 - can remove rights established by an act of parliament.

It raises questions of "fundamental constitutional importance about the limits of the power of the executive"

Pannick, QC for the challenger, said " this court is not concerned with the political wisdom of withdrawal" "The government was wrong to suggest the legal challenge was merely camouflage to prevent Brexit"

Pannick's client the court was advised had again received threats, abuse and insults.

A further QC - representing the people
Argued" the constitution of our parliamentary democracy, unwritten as it is , is predicated on the sovereignty of parliament and the courts working as arbiter. Notification of withdrawal leads to the removal of the rights of UK citizens.
Chambers QC argued that the referendum did not replace the UK system of parliamentary democracy"
If the government triggered A50 it would be setting itself up as "de facto legislature"
This is a case about what is legally required, not what is legally expedient.

Good ain't it?

rosesarered Thu 03-Nov-16 17:31:45

So, you're not keen on him then Tegan grin

rosesarered Thu 03-Nov-16 17:33:11

I think he would consider himself too dapper to do the I'm A Celebrity thing.

Ana Thu 03-Nov-16 17:35:15

I find it very odd that the public should be asked to pay towards the court case!

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 17:42:22

You don't have to if you don't want to, Ana. Somehow I don't think you will.

Ana Thu 03-Nov-16 17:42:31

And now Holyrood might join in!

'Nichola Sturgeon says that Holyrood could join businesswoman Gina Miller and hair dresser Deir Dos Santos as "participants in that case" when it goes to the Supreme Court in early December.'

whitewave Thu 03-Nov-16 17:54:45

There are a number of people with at least 3 QCs representing them. One QC represents a crowd of people who have clubbed together to fight the case.

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 18:01:54

That's the one that is asking for crowd-funding.
I think some people would get upset if it was funded through public money.

Ana Thu 03-Nov-16 18:02:24

What do you mean, whitewave? I thought the two people named had brought the case to Court. Surely they didn't need three QCs.

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 18:03:45

Three QCs are not many people to save democracy.

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 18:05:24

ukhumanrightsblog.com/2016/11/03/parliament-prevails/

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 18:07:57

Even Oliver Cromwell quoted on this.

MaizieD Thu 03-Nov-16 18:10:46

Do you know what QCs cost?shock You need the very best you can afford, especially in a case like this where the government will pay whatever it takes.

Note the crowd fund is over halfway; it rose by about 2 grand in 20 minutes or so...

Ana Thu 03-Nov-16 18:14:06

Yes, I do know how much QC's charge, which is why I was surprised how low the total aimed for was.

MaizieD Thu 03-Nov-16 18:18:47

Perhaps they're doing some of the work pro bono.

Ana Thu 03-Nov-16 18:23:04

Hmm...you think? Always that possibility of course, especially if they've managed to secure the services of an ardent Remain voter.

whitewave Thu 03-Nov-16 20:00:46

3QCs 2 representing individuals and 1 representing a large group who clubbed together to fund a QC

whitewave Thu 03-Nov-16 20:17:09

If you read the transcript of the various arguments you will understand very quickly that politics has absolutely nothing to do with the argument, but it has everything to do with constitutional law.

Politics is transistory and fleeting but the law will last perhaps for generations.

The tax payer will pick up the tab for the government where money is no object, but those who are defending the individual and their rights are funding it themselves. I think we should be eternally grateful for these people and their stand for the British Constitution, their understanding that the Royal Perogative is being exploited in order to support a group of people who are keen to shut down debate and push through an idea without any recourse to representative democratic s which is the British way of doing politics.

The British Constitution is to be found in the miriad laws past over the previous centuries, and this is one of the most important and interesting cases addressing the rights of the individual for centuries.

granjura Thu 03-Nov-16 20:31:20

are you rose? ;)

the 'public' is given the choice to pay - it is entirely a choice - I'll personally be very happy to pay my bit.

rosesarered Thu 03-Nov-16 20:35:23

Am I what?

granjura Thu 03-Nov-16 20:46:11

... keen on him ?

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 21:19:12

Crowdjustice is the way that ordinary people can get justice now that most legal aid has disappeared.
I think it's an excellent way for people without resources to be heard in court.

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 21:45:24

38 degrees have been crowdsourcing ideas on Brexit.
So far over 8 million people have given their ideas. That's nearly 25% of the number who voted.

Results so far are here.

diybrexit.38degrees.org.uk/

Most people seem to be concerned about the effect on the NHS.

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 21:46:56

You can still have your say on it if you haven't already.

daphnedill Fri 04-Nov-16 02:44:00

Excellent link! That's real democracy. I wonder why the government didn't start it hmm.

Ginny42 Fri 04-Nov-16 02:46:17

Well Brexit supporters must be very pleased that our judges and our law have forced Theresa May to respect our elected Parliament.

Brexiters accuse the EU of being an unaccountable dictatorship and here is a good example of the kind of British sovereignty that Brexiters crave.

If TM decides to appeal and loses she could always take it to the European Court of Justice. grin