Brexit4

daphne 'we' meaning the side that won the vote.

Roses (and Ana, you are one and the same aren't you) :

We should all be knitting nanas ( like the ones in the cereal ad )grin Strong topics bring strong feelings ...

nought wrong with strong feelings, and nought wrong with knitting either.

There is something very wrong with some being rude and totally lacking in empathy - to the point shown here.

No need for knitting- strong feeling can be discussed fairly, giving good points and suitable links to back up one's opinions, and trying to answer questions raised with the same.

It's quite simple really.

It's been used on here before.

That's interesting, roses, seeing as it was only published today (note the date)

You are more than welcome to stick your fingers in your ears and sing 'la,la,la' but I'm sure that some people will find it interesting. It's about Brexit and parliamentary democracy

This one is interesting, too, though others may have seen it before.

How We Lost the Brexit Vote. By one of Cameron's former aides

www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/

I think roses meant that the term 'brexshitters' had been used on here before.

Noted, Ana.

I have tried saying it but can only say it in a dodgy German accent

Thank you for the link Maizie I have just read it and found it interesting that legally the Govt need to give a choice once terms have been agreed - that is the first time I have seen that - however he doesn't say what could be done if the other choice was to remain in the EU and was the choice made, because as he acknowledges, the triggering of A50 is like firing a bullet and cannot be withdrawn.

@petra

That sounds very divisive.

Well this thread has certainly served the purpose of illustrating just how divided the UK is at present, tragically. Some of you may not think the effect of Brexit are not 'tragic' - but certainly the divisions it has highlighted, even in families, with friends, colleagues, neighbours and at large, including the rise of racist attacks that some here deny- are indeed tragic.

Many of my DDs friends are truly scared about the future for their children in the UK, not 'just' the economy, but the huge divisions rising in society.

I don't think he can say anything about the consequences of parliament blocking the government's Brexit agreement; he's just setting out the legal position. beyond that is just speculation.

There's a thread on the mumsnet EU forum which does speculate, but. of course, they are lay people posting, like us, not lawyers

Sorry, there was a thread but mumsnet appears to have pulled it. It must have turned very nasty but it was perfectly civilised when I was looking at it a couple of hours ago...

Sorry, that was for welshwife but others nipped in before me...

Thanks for the link, Maizie. I guess that's how posterity will view Brexit. It's difficult to know where the vantage point will be in twenty or so years (and some of us will never experience it), but I suspect people will still be scratching their heads and muttering 'wtf'.

Have I been reading the same link as ww? I meant the one from politico.eu.

I don't think you were, dd. I think Ww was referring to the Jolyn Maughm (sp?) blog I'd posted a link to earlier this morning

Aha! That explains it. I've just read the other one, which is very long - I even had to make a second cup of coffee! I was beginning to think I'd missed something, but didn't have the patience to re-read it.

Oh, the mumsnet thread has reappeared. Possible social consequences of parliamentary rejection of possible Brexit proposals are discussed from 1st page on.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2760025-Does-anyone-else-sense-a-change-of-mood-re-Brexit?pg=1

Yes - it was the link * Maizie* posted I was referring to.

I hadn't seen the first one.

I read this one
www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/

suzied Tue ' 11-Oct. '-16 05:57:34
I think "remoaners" are twinned with "brexshitters", and I am sure some would complain if we started using that term.

suzied Thu 20-Oct-16 06:45:30
As well as bemoaners there are plenty of brexshitters ( all will be wonderful sometime in the distant future....)

Hmm perhaps you should listen to your own advice unless of course your two contributions to debate were to hopefully 'get a rise' out of posters?

daphnedil

Blimey that was a long read but I think I can accept and agree with about 95% of it, it was a very fair appraisal in my opinion.

Tusk has made it clear on behalf of the rest of the EU- the ball is in your Court now. EG there will be no negotiations first- you have to invoke article 50 and THEN the rest of the EU will discuss the terms of the withdrawal of UK from the EU- without the UK taking any part in said negotiations.

That process was totally clear right from the start. Why should the rest of the EU suffer from the uncertainty caused by waiting for article 50 to be called. And re negotiations, many of us reminded all here and elsewhere that the rules are crystal clear- the country wishing to withdraw has no right to any part of the negotiation process. Anyone who spent 5 minutes researching this beforehand would know that- as it was there for all to see. Crystal - how this comes as such a surprise to so many now, and seen as being 'vindictive and wanting to punish' is just bizarre.

And every single country has to agree, I believe [?]. So, eg Poland or Southern Ireland can veto anything that might cause problems for them.

Exactly- not this is not an 'opinion' or even a 'strong feeling' -but just simple basic facts that were known and clear ever since 73, and there for all to see with a tiny bit of research effort- and there made clear to those who were not prepared to to a bit of their own research- a long time before the vote and all along the way till the Referendum. Same about a Referendum in the UK not being binding but advisory only.

Again, why people now act all surprised and 'ah but we didn't know, did we' now- is just so weird.

Pogs -I only repeated the above phrase beginning with B as there had been an increase in the use of similar pejorative terms applied to remainers. I know people will take offence, as do I when given a dismissive and unpleasant label. It was reactive. I will not use it again unless others use similar unpleasant terms.

Plus - I didn't make it up, it has been doing the rounds for a while.