What is Populism

There are 11 groups calling themselves Labour which are not affiliated to the Labour party.
Jonathan Rutherford belongs to two of those. He does not speak for Labour.
One of the ones he belongs to has been asked to be outlawed.
So to actually say that's what Labour has to do is rubbish. That's what one member of a fringe group says it has to do. Obviously anyone who is not a member of the Labour party will agree with him; people who have a vested interest in the Labour Party disappearing from the political spectrum.

It's not rubbish to voice one's opinion, dj. Isn't that all Rutherford's doing? I don't think he's claiming to speak for the whole Labour Party. How could he? Even Jeremy Corbyn can't do that.

How do you explain Labour MP Alison McGovern's chairmanship of the group?

I'm not trying not to turn this into yet another anti-Labour rant.

If one of those groups is Blue Labour, I think it is affiliated to the Labour Party. ProgressOnline isn't, which is why it calls itself 'independent'. Well, that's what I understand anyway.

I really would hate the kind of backward-looking vision of Britain which Rutherford seems to be advocating to win votes. I much prefer Joe Jervis' argument for a forward-thinking patriotism.

The Labour Party obviously has big problems with reconciling the different values of its voters and I don't know what the answer is, nor what will happen. At the moment it doesn't have a 'populist' ethos - or, being more precise, it has a number of populist ethoses, but they're different. I suspect the situation will change as the demographic profile changes ie today's teenagers reach voting age and some of the older voters die.

It will be interesting to see if there's a backlash against conservatism in the UK. It might even come from the centre, which isn't really represented at the moment. Who knows?

Alison McGovern is Chairman of Progress, which isn't (I don't think) affiliated to the Labour Party. There are numerous political groups of all persuasions which aren't affiliated officially to political parties, but have MPs as members.

* delete one of my 'not's. It should be 'I'm trying not to...'

I have just listened to the most shocking speech from Trump. The worst type of nationalism. Full on populism.

Appalling Trump has attacked all his predecessors and is bent on destruction of so much that has been achieved with his rabid isolationist populism,

I was listening to radio 4 and decided to watch on tv at about 5.15 pm. I was mesmerised and not in a positive way.
It's impossible for me not to look at the way the Obamas, the Clintons and in fact all former presidents behaved with dignity and respect towards their predecessors. The tradition of a smooth transition was upheld until the moment Trump started talking. No policies again, just a self promoting dialogue about how he's going to make america great, put America first. He can't be ignorant of the fact that phrase America First was used to blame the Jewish community in Europe for attempting to drag the US into WW2, or that its used by the KKK.
I am not saying Trump is anti semitic but I am saying his self belief combined with his refusal to listen to 'experts' about climate change, or anything else is terrifying. Evidently, the Whitehouse website no longer has any reference to climate change or gay rights. We;re going back to the future.

The Labour Party doesn't think Blue Labour is affiliated to it.

There is no doubt that right wing populism is on the rise with French fascist Marine le Pen and Dutch fascist Geert Wilders meeting the leaders of other Europaean far right natonalists in Koblenz,

They are celebrating Donald Trump's inauguration and have adopted his toxic rhetoric which chimes so well with their fascist agenda.

Le Pen is currently the front runner in the French presidential election polls, We should be very worried

Fair enough! I thought it was from its description of itself.

Iam64 If you won't say that Trump is antisemitic, I will. There were definitely antisemitic undertones in some of his campaigning, which is surprising because his SiL is Jewish and his daughter has converted to Judaism. It hasn't gone unnoticed in the Jewish press.

Thanks daphnedill - that'll teach me for trying to be reasonable

This is another of those occasions when I wish there was an edit button. Trump is also offensive about black Americans and his behaviour/statements towards the parents of the young Muslim officer killed in action were outrageous. Plus he was supported by the KKK. When we were in the US in the build up to the election, we talked with many black African Americans - not one of whom was voting for Trump. No wonder!

Pope warns against the rise of populism he needs to read GN!!!!!!

Some people on gransnet have been saying they dont think Turmp will do much, get bored, wont be able to do much etc.

I have said that my concern is that he will go too far.

He's so unpredictable that nobody knows. He behaves like a toddler.

I agree with you Ankers. I can seriously imagine him pressing the nuclear button...just for fun. Meanwhile, Putin (who really is no fool) is playing games with him and the whole of America and the West.

I dont think he will press the button, unless he goes totally insane.

I do think though, that if enough people say that he is wonderful, it goes to his head and he does more and more things etc.

To me, and something I havent already said, [and others may not agree with me] is that currently, his home life seems remarkably stable. And he appears to have great love for his family, and them to him.
This should help him keep on the straight and narrow?

And I think people would have to agree that there is not too much to dislike about how his family members behave, including his children??

I dont understand the Putin stuff at all.
I very much wonder whether he has a lot of debts somewhere[probably monetary debt?] tied up with Russia.

I did say to someone in rl[non american] who likes Trump, and I would say is a reasonable person, that Trump is unpredictable.
The person said good! I cant remember his reason now.

It's telling that the POTUS who took us closest to a nuclear war was he so beloved of the globalist left that he will forever sit alongside the Omighty one , none other than JFK!

Have you ever considered that there might be some kind of vaccination against 'leftism'?

More to the point, have you ever put your brain into gear about what 'leftism' is?

It really does seem that you've been programmed with the McCarthyism app, but haven't been updated.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I seriously can't be bothered with you.

Try to keep conversation to the topic Daph, without resorting to playground name calling.

Mair - has it ever occurred to you that when JFK was president, the world was a very different place and America had a very different view of its "responsibilities" to prevent Russia/Communism over running the world. I don't say that was the right point of view but I find it hard to believe that had JFK not been assassinated, the world would have been a better place.

Ankers - your homilies about the Trumps home life have omitted the numerous allegations from women of sexual harassment or assault, many of which came after his marriage to the current Mrs Trump. His former wife made allegations of serious assault.

"I find it hard to believe that had JFK not been assassinated, the world would have been a better place."

Of course you are correct, JFK would have succeeded in plunging the world in another war, life as we know it would be far worse.