Melania and equality

www.ft.com/content/3bbd58ec-6df3-11e1-b98d-00144feab49a

roses - dj is right about lying on (as opposed to embellishing) a cv as part of a job application. Just lying about having a degree as MT, or someone in her team did, is of course, not against the law but is stupid and pathetic. Others who have lied about having higher educational qualifications than they had include IDS and Jeffrey Archer

No, he said he had a degree and he didn't. It was to get a better job than he could have had. NHS, I think it was.

The reason it was with the fraud office is because the number of cases has risen lately. That was in 2014. Why do you always have to disbelieve what I say, roses?

"In addition, the intention must be to make to make a gain and obtaining employment would certainly fit this criteria.

No gain actually needs to be made and, therefore, a person could be guilty of this offence even if they did not actually successfully get the position through the lie.

But one Manchester man has already seen the dangers of telling lies on his CV.

In Manchester this year, Wade Jordan was jailed for three years for fraud and perverting the course of justice.

Jordan landed an HR role at biotechnology firm Qiagen by claiming he had an MA in human resource management from Manchester Metropolitan University."
Not the NHS. This was in 2014. There is now a company which checks up on people's CVs when they say they have degrees.

Thanks, Rigby.

Backtracking slightly. I also backtracked to look at the moment when Melania Trump gave her gift to Michelle Obama. It was a very short interlude and I suppose people can draw whatever conclusions they like. The sound recording was iffy but I thought Melania Trump said something about "yummies before they go to Capitol Hill" – an expression that might make another adult look a little bemused, especially as she seemed rather uncertain about "yummies" in the first place. Almost immediately, Donald Trump barged – and I use that word quite deliberately – between the two women. I consider that to be extremely discourteous and I think it also wrong-footed Michelle Obama who was trying to juggle yummies and hand shakes at the same time.

I am horrified by many of the things that President Trump has done and said, some of them political, some not. I have no reason to criticise his wife and feel some sympathy with a non-political woman, which I think she is, plunged into this amorphous role of First Lady. I thought she maintained herself graciously during the inauguration, her outfit was delightful and wholly appropriate, and there is no denying that she is a very attractive woman. I have read that the now deleted claim on the website that she has a degree is false but, frankly, first degrees are two a penny these days and really don't mean very much. Lying, of course, does matter – but who ran the website? That she speaks a number of languages is to her credit but people from European countries whose first language is not one other Europeans tend to study usually are linguists – for example, not may people choose to learn Dutch but the Dutch are fluent in at least two, and often more languages. I also speak five languages and can read a couple more – so reasonably bright, but no cigar for intellect in my opinion.

Nude photos are iffy. It would make Brits, however liberal minded, feel a little uncomfortable if there were similar, not paparazzi, photographs of the royal family. That does remind me of the Donald Trump tweet urging the Duchess of Cambridge to get her tits out.

absent - what's your view on her going on national TV and supporting her husband I in his filthy, vile , racist birther views?

May has sorted all this out, What Trump and America does is not for us to question. I assume that goes for his wife too.

djen.... you ask why I never believe anything you say, well, it is not always the things you say as what you leave out !
In the case of Wade Jordan, I have now looked at the Manchester Police site to see what the case really was about.
He was convicted of four counts of fraud and perverting the course of justice.
He diddled his employers out of a total of £50,000 ( and yes he had lied about having a degree but would certainly not have been jailed for that!!!) He had also altered a doctors note saying that the trial should be delayed ( perverting the course of justice.)
Telling part of a story djen is not telling the whole truth.

The £50,000 btw was for false expenses accounts, he drew the cash and spent it.

Rigby you are just adding to the hate being spread around ( Melania Trump) that in itself is pretty vile to me.

Wade Jordan is not the only person to have gone to jail for lying on a CV. It is a criminal offence, and prosecutions are rising according to various news sources. That has nothing to do with 'spreading hate' about Melania Trump, it's just a fact.

I think she will inevitably face criticism for all sorts of things, because she's in the public eye. All First Ladies have had to put up with it, even the now sainted Jackie Kennedy (who I think she has chosen as a role model). I hope she can find a happy life for herself and her son, who is the true innocent in all of this circus.

absent - you may feel that " 1st degrees are two a penny these days" but I find that sweeping statement distasteful. I could write a long post about how hard I've seen many young people work in order to qualify for university and to achieve that degree.
If Melania felt she had to claim to have a degree in order to be taken seriously, maybe she shares the widely held belief that going into higher education, achieving a degree or professional qualification gives folks both more status and higher earning power.
Sorry for going off at a tangent but this is a subject I feel strongly about.

People who say degrees are two a penny, have no appreciation of the work and effort put in to obtain that degree.

People who say degrees are two a penny may quickly change their mind if they need expertise at any stage in their life. How else do they think this expertise is obtained.

People who say degrees are two a penny don't know what they are talking about.

roses your posts continually minimise serious issues that those you don't agree with bring up and reject evidence. Re claiming fake qualifications - I posted a reputable link which you ignore. Yout posts then implicitly minimise the disgusting, vile, racist birther movement that DT and MT supported - she on national TV - again I posted a link. Do I hate her and him - I hate their views on this issue and if she is as intelligent as some of you think, then she must have known exactly what she was doing and saying in that interview. And I mean hate not dislike or disagree with

Remembering how my grandson worked to get his degree I am cross to read his hard work dismissed with a few taps on a keyboard

Roses, he wouldn't have been able to fiddle £50,000 out of his employers if he hadn't lied about having a degree, would he?
He wouldn't have had the job if he hadn't lied about the degree.
I also resent being told first degrees are two a penny. I worked bloody hard for my degree, as did all the people in my family who have them. Some ofthem even have MAs or MEds.
Wade Jordan was jailed for having lied about having an MA, not a first degree, which is still a BA, I believe, or are they so devalued now that they don't count.
Even people who lie about having A levels have been sent to jail for months.

Nothing to do with 'minimising' Rigby I thought the whole truth of the matter in the Wade Jordan case was relevant.If anybody is interested they can go to the Manchester Police site and read it.Had he just been an honest worker( and lied about his degree) and been found out, he would not have got a long custodial sentence, it's as simple as that.
Not everyone agrees with you either on Melania Trump, so you will have to man up about that.

djen if he had been in a job and not lied about his degree, and had gone on to embezzle as he did he would have still got his prison sentence.That's the thing, you must tell the whole story and not twist facts to suit yourself.

Pc Ryan Mackenzie from the Volume Fraud Team, said: "Wade Jordan is every employers worst nightmare.

"He was dishonest from the off, claiming to have a Master's degree in HR Management which we found to be a complete fabrication.

"Not only did he lie to his employers he stole, over a prolonged period of time, a significant amount of cash.

"There are many people who would welcome the kind of job opportunity handed to Wade yet he showed nothing but contempt for his employers, throwing the opportunity handed to him back in their faces." "

You do not know, roses, what sentence he would have got. You are just making it up. You must not twist facts to suit yourself.
The police Fraud team thought the lie about his degree was important enough to mention it in their report.

"But no campaign reboot is capable of fortifying a campaign built on fictions. This time, the problem stems from the candidate’s wife, Melania Trump. In a report exploring the fate of the former model’s caviar-based skin-care line, Racked inadvertently stumbled upon a 2013 court deposition in which she said, under oath, that she graduated with a bachelor’s degree in architecture.

“Would you please explain to the Judge your formal education including what schools you attended and from which you graduated?” an attorney asked, according to a transcript pulled by Racked.

“I attended and graduated from design school, from Fashion and Industrial Design School and also attended, graduated from architecture degree, bachelor degree,” she responded. (I attempted to find the same section of transcript through court filings, but the documents online were truncated. I did find a portion in which a lawyer seemed to have just asked her about her education in an October 2013 deposition, since his follow-up question was, “between the time you completed college studies around 1992 until the formation of Melania, LLC in 2009, could you tell us about what other business activities you were engaged in?”)"

Melania's full website had to be deleted after she claimed to have a degree. Of course, being First Lady will let her off the hook for lying under oath. After all, he does it, so why shouldn't she?

roses - I really don't understand your posts sometimes. What on earth have I got to 'man up' about - whatever that ridiculous phrase means. Of course not everyone agrees with me about MT - it doesn't mean that I will change my mind or not mention it again As for picking holes indj's point about lying yes lying on a cv. Of course this was a tangent from MT's behaviour but arose because your post completely minimised her( or someone in her team) putting it on her personal website. Agsin if she's that bright, you think she'd check what was being said in her name wouldn't you? . Honestly your posts often make digs at posters you consider one sided and blinkered - well kettle and pan I think re your views on MT

Wow dj

<gets popcorn, draws up chair, waits for apologists to come along>

What I think is rather sad is that these days people feel that they MUST have a degree or two or three, even to the point of making it up in order to be taken seriously! I don't remember former Presidents wives being quizzed about their educational qualifications,or being thought any the less of for lack intellectual prowess. Poor Melania probably felt she needed to lie in order for people not to label her as a fortune hunting bimbo! Although lots of people find it hard to believe, there are people in the world who aren't particularly academic who do have views and interests which, shock horror, are at times interesting and relevant and not ridiculous and ill informed. Apart from sad, it's SO patronising!

Picking holes in djen posts......dont make me laugh Rigby there were so many holes it was sieve.
You don't get three years in the slammer here for lying as he did about his cv! Can anyone not understand that?
It did prove that he was dishonest from the off, so says something about his character,
But the sentence reflected the cash that was stolen and also perverting the course of justice ( altering a doctors note to prevent the trial) which is taken very seriously in a court.
...and it's pot and kettle btw if you want to use that phrase, not kettle and pan.You need to man up ( you don't know what this means?) and realise that not everyone agrees with you either.

Now, if anybody else is sufficiently interested in the Manchester case, find the website and read it.