Article 50

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/287287/occ109.pdf

This not an important enough bit of evidence for you, Joelsnan?

Or this?
www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/aboutus/workingwithus/mac/27-analysis-migration/02-research-projects/impact-of-migration?view=Binary

You will possibly find everything you want in the second link, but it is 72 pages long. Make sure you read it carefully.

If you don't believe them, perhaps you can direct me to someone you do believe?

The way this country has talked about immigrants, I would be surprised if any in high value specialist jobs want to come here. They will still be immigrants, after all.

One of the links says that low skilled workers from Romania and Poland are going back home, as they can earn just as much there and are wanted. Our farmers will not be pleased.

Of course, whitewave. Why wouldn't I?

DJ
I would not consider one persons report based upon 9 papers, the majority read on the same day as definitive evidence of fact. I would want to know the average cost of such things as providing TESOL teachers, translators within the health service, the cost of additional school places, teachers, the need for additional housing with the provision of infrastructure, roads, waterworks, sewage, etc. To service this additional housing requirement etc.
And, if uncontrolled immigration only brings economic benefits is this okay? should we also consider whether we should ignore some of the alien cultural practices that have now crept into the UK on the basis that there is an economic benefit from those who practice these?
We will probably always welcome immigrants however we must realise we are a small island with finite resources and therefore those who we welcome should be for high value specialist jobs, not for low paid jobs that locals don't fancy doing. Years ago job centres sent people to work and if you didn't go there was no dole.

"Controlling the number of European nationals coming to the UK. A law or a ministerial statement can set a numerical limit on EU migration but the Home Office has a long record of failing to meet numerical limits. Brexit will free the Mayor of Calais to put refugees there on a train to Britain without any obligation to accept their return from a non-EU state."

From this article by an expert.

ukandeu.ac.uk/how-achievable-are-the-uks-12-goals-for-brexit/

Thanks ana

Just a question. - do you read every single post?

e

And breath

SHHH!

Mair has been uncharacteristically reticent both on this thread and the refugee topic today. .
I suppose it is conceivable she may have chosen to have a little "time out"?

The link I gave was evidence given to the home affairs parliamentary committee. Jonathan Portes looked at all the studies from 1999 to 2015 or 6.
He said that many people were surprised at the findings, as they expected there to be a negative effect, because that's what the media told them.

JessM re the economists positive view of immigration, it depends on the data input to achieve the results, my argument is yes the economy may benefit but is this offst by the cost incurred by hosting the immigrants, it would be interesting to know if the cost of a standard family has ever been quantified does anyone know?

Sorry, Joelsnan, but evidence shows that even low income migrants have a positive effect on the economy and on society as a whole.

Migrants do not receive benefits.
We import 90% of our fruit and 50% of our vegetables. I doubt whether migrants affect to that extent.
Do you have any proof for your assertions?

Most economists agree that immigrants and immigration have a positive impact on the economy.
(Just as most MPs have a better understanding of the EU than the average in their constituency.)
Japan's economy is shrinking because they are not admitting immigrants.
fortune.com/2014/11/20/japan-immigration-economy/
America's vast economy based on ... guess what... immigrants.

Durhamjen
The mentioned 2% increase in GDP if offset by the cost of residency in the UK would probably show a negative benefit. The additional housing, education, health, social benefits and other services,plus the need to import food and goods adding to more waste and sewage must be factored in.
If all of the immigrants were within the high income brackets these costs would eventually be mitigated through income tax payments, however a vast majority are in the mid to low income brackets where there is often little or no tax paid and high benefit received. Ideally immigrants should have an overall positive impact both to the economy and to the workplace with specialist skills that are not met by the indigenous population.

Which is why I said it was interesting. Lots of Tory MPs must have had real conflicts in the vote on Wednesday.

This is an article about the small impact that immigration has had on the UK, collecting lots of information from different sources.

data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/home-affairs-committee/immigration/written/45077.pdf

They find that a 1% increase in migrant population results in a 2% increase in GDP.

What surprised me with the brexit programme, was, that it was the BBC that aired it.
It was only a couple of years ago that they could talk about immigration.

Which proves just how out of touch they were with their constituents.

Our Tory MP wanted to exit but the constituents voted to remain. There were calls for his resignation.

Very good *niggly

But ordinary people didn't!

This is an interesting report on what MPs think of Brexit.

ukandeu.ac.uk/profound-divisions-among-mps-over-brexit-survey-reveals/

It's amazing how many Tories wanted to remain.

joelsnan I watched it and thought it showed exactly what people are thinking. I think the eu should be very worried about the 5 star movement in Italy.
I've been reading about the alliance between the 4 eastern block countries and it looks like they're on our side Re brexit.
Some of the comments from the eu leaders were very interesting: they know they're in trouble.

What do you think, Mair, to all the thousands of UK citizens who are applying for EU citizenship?

I have seen comments from people who live in the places she went to - I did not see the programme - and all of them said it was not a true reflection and it was very biased.

Did anyone watch the BBC2 programme last night, 9:00pm...After Brexit: The Battle for Europe. Katy's Adler who is the EU correspondent travelled around Europe speaking to politicians and the everyday Joe's on their perception of the EU and where it heading. A very interesting programme which gives a wider perspective to the Brexit arguments.
Worth a watch.