Article 50

Why do some posters feel that UK would sink without trace without being propped up be mass immigration?
Just consider the island of Taiwan, a tiny island, a massive economy with little or no assistance from immigrants.
Do we have so little faith in ourselves that this is the case?
Most of the successful industrial nations outside EU do not rely on cheap imported workers to drive their economies they do it themselves, just as we used to.

the people who arrive here come from countries with poorer infrastructure and health care than here so are generally in a poorer health condition than we currently are

Another very good point JN.

I find it quite bizarre how some people are so in thrall to immigration that they do not even want to question that part of it which is clearly NOT beneficial.

The only immigrants who might benefit us are those who are high earners and healthy, and not even then if it means they displace a Briton from a job. All others 'take out' more than they 'put in'.

Welshwife I agree the majority of immigrants are younger, however, these young people are not always fit and healthy. One of the mist often and earliest services used are our maternity services which are very expensive and are often not free in their home countries these are services which the elders dont need. They need dental treatment, contraceptives etc. Their children require all the standard health orovision that elders don't. In many instances the people who arrive here come from countries with poorer infrastructure and health care than here so are generally in a poorer health condition than we currently are. Just think how we were sixty or seventy years ago with regard to general health and welfare and these are the conditions that many immigrants are coming from.
If the conditions at home were as good if not better than here why would they come?

the immigrant population are young and healthy and take little from the NHS

Crude stereotyping Welsh.
Many are bringing ageing parents to join them, some are bringing disabled relatives to benefit from our NHS.
Some are not healthy , just as not all young BRits are healthy.

This is especially true of those mainly from Africa and Asia who have TB, HIV, Malaria, other tropical diseases.

Almost all the young immigrants are breeding faster than the majority ethnic group and putting strain on maternity services nurseries and schools.

Where did I say this Mair ....You making things up now???

I didnt attribute this to you Anya.
I said it.

I can format as I choose Anya ; who appointed you as editor?!?!

'Alternative posts'

However it s absolute nonsense to suggest all univerities are equal and that a medical degree from say the Pan African University Nigeria is equivalent to one from Imperial College or Harvard!

Where did I say this Mair ....You making things up now???

Now there's a novel technique....

Especially if all the pensioners return from the EU !

Yes that's right welshwife we've known this for ever. I can't think why other people don't want to recognise this fact. We will be in severe difficulties without the immgrant population expanding the economy and paying taxes.

The statistics it seems show that is not the case - the immigrant population are young and healthy and take little from the NHS but give it a lot in the way if skills. Jen I think it was gave links to all this ages ago.

Hear hear Joelsnan

Well said JN, especially your second paragraph.

I find it puzzling when regularly reading the 'we need immigrants to do the jobs', when in many cases the increased need has only arisen as a result of increased immigration. Iin the case of the NHS, the immigrants are effectively treating the immigrants.
However I do recognise that the skinflint government knows that it is cheaper to import health service workers than to train them here and has encouraged this. We should not be encouraging this practice but should be railing against the poaching of skilled personnel from poorer countries that have shouldered the cost of their training.

can never fail or resist the urge to talk about immigrants

Nor can Bremainers when theyre insisting we 'need immigrants for the NHS'!

She did ana as she can never fail or resist the urge to talk about immigrants, and commented on it.

Anya

I have not provided any 'examples' because I realise individual examples prove very little. That is why I have provided statistical facts.

I thought you liked 'facts'? Or is that only when they suit you?

Interesting seems even EU doctors are poorer
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11146680/European-doctors-three-times-more-likely-to-be-struck-off-GMC.html

European doctors are three times more likely to be struck off by the GMC than British-trained doctors, a report has found, as one in three medics working in the UK has trained abroad

Terrifying!
Id bet my bottom dollar though theyre not Scandinavians, German or Dutch!

We need to train our own!

Oh dear! Mair I've accused you of using extreme examples to back up your thought processes before...And you never fail to disappoint!

I think you ll find medical provision and training in France, Germany and Italy is easily as good as, and in many areas far superior To NHS

Northern Europe yes, the south a little more dodgy, but you are right that the concerning areas of the world re medical training are those beyond Europe.

Brexit will not make it harder to select EU doctors. We will have control over that.

Perhaps Mair didn't see it, whitewave. She hasn't been a member for long.

susie we've looked at this recently. * mair* has chosen to ignore it. The report we looked at was much less alarmist and much more intelligent by the GMC

Do we have figures Mair as to what percentage of the 75% are EU trained doctors?

There are more likely to be increased numbers from African and Indian Universities when the flow from Europe slows down or stops. I would have thought that it was easier to check on qualifications gained in Europe than those in other countries.

I didn't know Nigeria was in the EU. Not sure how Brexit will affect their nationals employment in U.K. Probably have more of them.
I think you ll find medical provision and training in France, Germany and Italy is easily as good as, and in many areas far superior To NHS. A greater % of GDP in those countries is spent on healthcare, whereas ours languishes behind. Some people on here find it hard to admit that there is anything good in European countries.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9771022/Revealed-3-in-4-of-Britains-danger-doctors-are-trained-abroad.html

75% of doctors struck off are foreign.