Article 50

There are good stories coming out all the time
True.
While the bad ones are hushed up.

Very true petra!

Many many European Universities are extremely good and equal to UK ones

Many are but a great many are not. However its medical staff from poor corrupt countries beyond Europe we should be far more concerned about. The checking system to ensure they are up to standard is very flimsy.

Welshwife There are good stories coming out all the time but 'some' people just don't want to hear them.

That's where you and I part company Mair. I do agree that we need to train up more of our young people in certain areas. But having watched some mightily complicated operations and procedures on programmes like Hospital and 24 hours in A&E I cannot agree that 'foreign' doctors and nurses are less talented. I'm in awe of some of their skills. Some of 'our' best cardiac and paediatric surgeons seem to have trained abroad.

Of course some are very talented, and some of those you see on TV were trained in Britain!

However it s absolute nonsense to suggest all univerities are equal and that a medical degree from say the Pan African University Nigeria is equivalent to one from Imperial College or Harvard!

Head in sand!

Many many European Universities are extremely good and equal to UK ones.

The U.K seems to think that once we have left the EU their well qualified people will still wish to come to UK to work. This may well not be the case. If you read any of the forums which have EU members living in the UK at the moment and happily doing a valuable job many of them are looking at moving somewhere else - not necessarily back to their home country - indeed many of them are married to other EU nationals. Many of these people have been very upset about they way they feel they are no longer wanted by many of the U.K population - some have clearly suffered nasty discriminatory behaviour since the vote.

Some good news to emerge this morning was that McClaren are to bring their engine plant to Sheffield university from Austria. It seems that Sheffield have been developing this facility for 14 years as they are doing a lot of research into the materials they now use for building F1 cars. They have gradually built a wide ranging facility - well done them for having the foresight to do this.

That's where you and I part company Mair. I do agree that we need to train up more of our young people in certain areas. But having watched some mightily complicated operations and procedures on programmes like Hospital and 24 hours in A&E I cannot agree that 'foreign' doctors and nurses are less talented. I'm in awe of some of their skills. Some of 'our' best cardiac and paediatric surgeons seem to have trained abroad.

Likewise harvesting crops. In the village I used to live, the farmers relied on European labour, mainly Spanish. The workers arrived in late spring, took up residence in the caravans set aside for them, worked solidly until October then went back home. No problems at all. Only two lads from the village were regularly employed on the farms as the others preferred to be unemployed rather than work in the fields, though a lot of university students (my children amongst them) did add to the labour force during the summer months. Hard, back-breaking work it was, especially if harvesting courgettes which left your hands blistered.

And the same goes for cleanering and catering. Students and 'foreigners' mainly.

Until the government start the negotiations with the EU we will not know what options are on the table.

Far too early for guess work.

Anya
I think thats roughly true of most Brexiters.

I would add the corollary that I think most Brexiters do not want them to just be able to come over here on holiday, secure a job at Tesco say, and then settle here permanently. We want the vast majority of jobs reserved for Britons, and only those which are very hard to fill to be filled by foreigners, and we want to see more Britons trained up for all the shortage roles, especially in the NHS. We should NOT be depending on foreign doctors and nurses coming from inferior universities who are less well trained than our home grown.

I'm far more interested in reading what a poster has to say rather than trying to tell them how 'I' choose to post. Besides isn't that a tad cocksure?

Not everybody is a pedant and to be honest when I have been admonished in the past I have felt like saying 'go forth'.

Each to his/ her own I say.

If reduced to its simplest terms I'd say the average/moderate Brexiter is happy for EU and other nationals with an existing job, whether a top-flight cardiac surgeon or a Balti chef, to remain in the U.K. and a quid pro quo arrangement to be granted to UK nationals living abroad.

But they do want restrictions on future immigration, be it from the commonwealth or Europe or the US or anywhere, on those coming to this country, unless it's to fill a job, to study or to escape the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

leavehq.com/default.aspx

This appears to be a group campaigning for a soft Brexit.

Those supporting such a stance are mostly not " the Brexit supporting people" but rather the more moderate Bremainers who have accepted Brexit will happen and want to make it as 'Brexit light' as possible.

It is certainly very biased against True Brexit.

Sometimes it is quite nice when people don't feel in necessary to shout at all, but prefer to make their point in a reasoned and eloquent manner.
Looking at televised debates from the House of Commons, "shouty" slanging matches do no favours to those who see them as an acceptable alternative to informed debate

Absolutely MawB! On this point, at least we are totally in agreement.

I found this by a somewhat circuitous route!

leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

The surprising thing about this piece Roses is that it is put out by the Brexit supporting people and yet clearly shows that possibly it is just not such a good idea -- it does not give any alternative ideas in the article. I would think if you google LeaveHQ and WTO rules you would find it.

Although Welshwife because something seems like common sense ( and maybe is)
It doesn't mean ipso facto, that because it is news put out by a group you don't like that it is therefore rubbish, but we have to take into consideration that any bit of info will come along with some bias attached to it.

On a Facebook group this morning I found a link about WTO rules and how these can be used by the UK if all else fails at the end of the Brexit talks. The article explains how no country actually trades simply using the WTO rules but other agreements run alongside and are the agreements which take a long time to sort out.
It seems that the minute the UK leaves the EU the organisations which inspect and agree that UK made goods comply to EU regulations will no longer be recognised and all cargo will need to be inspected and checked at the Continental ports. The whole procedure will take about a week and cost about £2K a load - the breakdown of these costs is given. It also points out that because of the regulations in effect all food exports of food to the EU will be stopped for a while.
I read all this with interest as it is written in an easy enough form to understand. At the end I then saw who had put out this information which clearly and openly shows that for the UK to consider taking this route would be madness ---- it is the LEAVE HQ - this fact is shown quite clearly but I failed to notice it till the end. I was unable to do a link as they were only there for Twitter and Facebook but some clever person maybe able to do something.

I refuse to speak Newspeak.

Yet the biggest Newspeak lie operating at this moment is 'the will of the people'.

suzied If you are referring to my post Re the demise of other nation states, I hope that's not the impression I gave. I have lived in Spain, close to the border with Portugal, so I know both countries well. I lived in Bulgaria and travelled to Greece often.
It's because I know these countries well that I believe they deserve more than the eu, particularly Greece. They were well and truly stuffed when they were 'persuaded' to join the euro.

Traditionally Jalima ONE SHOUTS LIKE THIS

Does one Mair?
Sometimes it is quite nice when people don't feel in necessary to shout at all, but prefer to make their point in a reasoned and eloquent manner.
Looking at televised debates from the House of Commons, "shouty" slanging matches do no favours to those who see them as an acceptable alternative to informed debate.
RL is like that, I see no reason why the written word should be otherwise, unless one is seeking to emulate the front page of a newspaper -and a red-top at that

Feeling sympathetic towards the Greeks would seem to be an appropriate emotion.
They have a long a rocky road ahead whatever happens.

I'm not sure that hoping for the demise of other nations is a desirable emotion. I'm sure there are plenty both inside and outside the UK that are hoping and expecting a economic, social and political decline in a similar fashion. Revelling in creating the most divided nation since the civil war is not some thing I wish to celebrate.

Traditionally Jalima ONE SHOUTS LIKE THIS not like this.

Italics I reserve for emphasis and in the absence of a quote facility prefer to embolden as a very clear way to distinguish the quote.

Thanks Saak! Yes I am very honest (though I say it myself). I refuse to speak Newspeak.

I think emboldened type looks louder than ordinary type as it emphasises what is in a post, whereas most posters know that
if you prefer to be shouty so be it
words enclosed like that by the caret or circumflex are copied from someone else's post and you are responding to them.