Article 50

* nigglenellie* I think the 10-15 years is immaterial, it won't exist. More and more people in Europe are waking up. Now that they have seen project fear didn't materialise, many of them will go for it.

Mair, the long term future of the EU is exactly what concerns me. Short to medium I'm sure it's fine and would be the easy safe option, but!!! I fervently feel that long term we are much better outside this organisation as I have a bad feeling as to how things may be in 10 - 15 years time, who will be running
things, the European equivalent of D. Trump? What will we inevitably have to agree to despite present day reassurances? No good then sighing and wringing our hands! All those years ago I voted for a trade agreement, nothing else, and I would be perfectly happy to abide by that today.

Correction 'medium term'

GG
Good post GG. Many people are very uncertain about where thy stand on the EU. In or out its uncertain, many dont like the way the EU is going and they are in an economic mess, but they fear the even greater short to medium turn uncertainty of leaving.

There is no doubt the 'safest' short term option is Remain, but that doesn't apply beyond about 2020.

being not be

I don't agree with "The Remainers want to remain in the EU with the same conditions as we have" Welshwife.

Not all who voted remain thought it was fine as it was and many who voted leave where not extreme either and will be aware that we need to negotiate a position that is good for both the EU and the UK.

The fight is currently being re-run over and over by the extremes but I would take a small bet on the majority not be extreme in either direction and just hoping it all works out for the best.

Yes MD it was an incorrect inference, though not an unreasonable one.
A good trading deal, something like the Canada deal perhaps, but I am no expert.

Let's put it another way, then, Mair.

What sort of trading relationship with the EU would you want after Brexit?

If you don't want us to remain in the Single Market, Mair, why did you post your comment of 9.58?

I suspect youve read the article quickly and been misled by the measured tones of his wording. This man is an EU fanatic who wants to keep us out of the single market!

I inferred from that that you did want to stay in the Single Market after Brexit. I apologise if I have misread you.

The Remainers want to remain in the EU with the same conditions as we have

The EU is changing all the time Welsh, and Bremainers are not in agreement as to how it should do so. Many Bremainers want free movement to end but are frightened about leaving the EU for economic reasons.

I dont want us to remain in the single market MD

Non EU migration does not really come into this argument - different question altogether and has always had the possibility of being altered.

The Remainers want to remain in the EU with the same conditions as we have - if we leave and rejoin the conditions are likely to be different - probably need to join the Euro and Schengen both of which most Remainers are happy to do without. We have more opt outs etc than any other country at the moment.

Now what about your reasons for thinking that we could stay in the Single Market, Mair?

"At least we Remainers are unanimous about what we want"

What nonsense. You are not unanimous about whether you want:
To be in the single currency
To be part of Schengen
To have a Euro army and police force
To admit migrants
To distribute migrants across Europe regardless of the wishes of the national governments.
To have unanimous voting on issues or qualified majority voting.
To admit or not admit Turkey.
And the biggy to become a United States of Europe or not!

You are also not allowing for the niche of the Euronationalists who want a united Europe but also to prevent non EU immigration.

OK, Ana, the impression I am getting is that at least some Leavers want to stay in the Single Market. Perhaps those who do can explain why they think it's possible to stay in it and those who don't could just say they don't so that we are a bit clearer as to who wants what.

At least we Remainers are unanimous about what we want

But it appears that they don't want to leave the Single Market ('they' being Leavers on this forum) and are confident that we won't. It's just a threat from an EU fanatic who wants to keep us out of the single market!

So MaizieD thinks Leavers want to stay in the single market and durhamjen thinks they don't...

"Brexit really does mean Brexit. Theresa May’s long-awaited speech this week finally outlined some of her government’s negotiating objectives. Now we know that Britain wants to leave the European single market it helped to create, the customs union, and the European Union as a whole."

Yes, Maizie, why do they want to leave the single market we helped to create?

Can any of you Leavers explain why you think that the UK will be able to stay in the Single Market?

Wolfgang Schauble, the German finance minister has stated " we should not punish th uk. Cutting the city adrift would be counter productive because it had the capacity that * didnt* exist in the rest of the continent"
Did anyone read about the French finance minister going to New York to meet the banks on Wall Steet to put the case for the financial centre to be moved to France.
They weren't impressed because he had to take an interpreter with him
I have a feeling that that isn't going to happen.

"But it is an illusion to suggest that the UK will be permitted to leave the EU but then be free to opt back into the best parts of the European project, for instance by asking for zero tariffs from the single market without accepting the obligations that come with it. I hope that British people will see from the perspective of an EU taxpayer how unreasonable this would be."

From Jess's link.

How on earth do you know that, durhamjen?

For god's sake, Mair, niggly has never been put off anything on here by anyone.

Cheers Nellie, and do join in more often, don't let the few who resort to jeering and silly pointless posts designed to do nothing more than goad put you off.