Article 50

definately ja

But whitewave if we were never really in in the first place we should not have to go through the agony of leaving.

Should we get a refund of all our contributions?

Does that mean that the signing of subsequent treaties was meaningless Yorkshiregel?

If one is not a legal member of a group, a club, then signing future amendments and regulations would be pointless if one is not really a member in the first place.

Interesting.

And of course what lies ahead is important, but it's also important to point out why Brexiters voted as they did.

Excellent post, Yorkshiregel I agree.

No petra shame for that sort of post. It is all immaterial now as we are leaving. What is ahead is important.

Excellent posts Yorkshiregel. Very very interesting reading Re the legalities of us joining. But I'm afraid you would have more luck digging a hole in the North Sea than getting people to see that it was a massive con.
In fact I would go so far as to say that even if the leaders of the eu stood up and admitted it, these people still wouldn't believe it because if they did they would have to admit they were taken for fools.

Last link for you but I could provide many more 'surprises' and reasons why I voted to get us out of the EU. Not Europe, that is a continent which we are joined to and which I for one love to visit, one that we will still trade with when we come out and one that has variety, culture, lovely people. I am just talking about the dream of a United States of Europe plan which I disagree with because it makes all our countries poorer, we lose our individuality and our culture, indeed our identity so I am very happy we voted OUT.

www.thecommentator.com/article/5728/juncker_s_programme_to_demolish_britain

sounds good to me.

There are Government documents to back up these stories, they are not made up by the newspapers (any newspaper) they are fact, they are historical and they are fact.

I agree, it is now the future that matters. That is why people should stop running this country down. They should stop all this doom and gloom and look forward, in fact not just look, work towards, a brighter future for our children and grandchildren.

All this moaning and talking down will put their future at risk, every time someone says this MIGHT happen and that MIGHT happen the market wobbles.

Talk this country up for goodness sake, have a bit of faith in the British people and work together to make coming out of the EU the right decision for Britain.

I suspect that we were stitched up by Heath, he was desperate to join.All too late now ( though would make interesting reading, have to look it up.)

So if we were do we need to come out as it were?!

In fact if you read this you will realise that we were taken in to the EU illegally!

www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

Yes but even if I accept it is true, which I don't as I think it is slanting history. It no longer matters. What does matter very much indeed is the future.

MacMillan was a great pragmatist. I can see that he would wish to supress knowledge of 'the grand plan as being inimical to our pretty desperate need to improve our economic situation by joining the Common Market but it is also entirely possible that he considered that the 'grand plan' would ultimately prove to be unachievable.

It's interesting that the White Paper on the Brexit Strategy is at pains to say that Britain has not lost Parliamentary Sovereignty even if people 'feel' that it has.

For those who scoff that 'this was the daily mail' you are wrong. This stuff was on the tv, it is in the archives of bbc, it is in all the national papers and there have been books written about how we were deliberately deceived. Do the research, I have and I have other links that back this up if you would care to read them?

No ana not necessarily incorrect but I simply said remember Dacres agenda. There are always alternative views available

Don't forget it's the Daily Mail. Dacre has a huge agenda. Even going against Rothemere the owner.

Sigh...so if it's in the Daily Mail it must be incorrrect, eh whitewave?

As we see from Cabinet papers and other documents of the early Sixties, Prime Minister Harold Macmillan and his ‘Europe Minister’ Edward Heath were put completely in the picture about the secret ‘grand plan’. But in June 1961 the Cabinet formally agreed that it must not be revealed to the British people.

In Macmillan’s words, to admit ‘the political objectives’ of the Rome Treaty would raise ‘problems of public relations’ so ‘considerable’ that they should be kept under wraps. It was vital to emphasise only the economic advantages of British entry.

Thus did Macmillan and Heath become drawn into complicity with that same web of deceit which was driving the ‘project’ itself (which is why we called our book The Great Deception).

Twice in the Sixties Britain made failed attempts to join the project — but within weeks of Heath entering Downing Street in 1970, he applied to Brussels a third time. Scarcely had negotiations begun than he learned that his future partners were already discussing the next steps along their path to full integration: a single currency, European defence forces, a common foreign policy.

Heath immediately sent word to Brussels pleading for all this to be kept quiet, because it might blow the gaffe with British voters.

For two years the negotiations continued, with Heath handing over all he was asked for, from giving away Britain’s fishing waters, the richest in the world, to become ‘a common European resource’, to the betrayal of our Commonwealth partners by excluding their goods from what had been for many their main export market.

Finally, Heath got what he was after: entry to the club — although he still pretended that the Common Market was little more than a trading arrangement.

On the day we entered, he told the British people on television that any fears that ‘we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty’ were ‘completely unjustified’.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255506/Monumental-deceit-How-politicians-lied-lied-true-purpose-European-behemoth.html#ixzz4Xd6yNjlG

Don't forget it is the Daily Mail

Please read this. It explains what the ultimate goals were right at the beginning of the creation of the EU experiment.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255506/Monumental-deceit-How-politicians-lied-lied-true-purpose-European-behemoth.html

Seems to me that Britain has escaped by the skin of its teeth and brought our country back from the brink.

All trade agreements under which we operate at present are under the auspices of the EU. We have/had no trade negotiators of our own.

Interested to read that the white paper has indicated that immigration will not be under control any time soon and certainly not in 2019 and beyond. How on earth are they going to sell that to the Brexiters?

The free trade agreement under which we trade with South Africa was negotiated by the EU. Also FTAs with some 50 other countries.
We also trade with other countries, notably the US, without any EU interference.