Open Britain - Hard Brexit

Best decision we made in years imo! People should stop talking this country down. We have a lot to offer. Other countries can see that so why cannot the remainers? We were hurtling towards our children being dragged in to a European Army, when we already have NATO and the UN. mass immigration on a scale we have never seen before. Our fields covered in houses we do not need. Our fisheries are almost gone, our farmers are really struggling, people are having to go to food banks to feed their families. In what way are we better off in the EU? If the EU offers to fund things we have to equal the amount offered or it will be withdrawn. We pay much more in to the pot than most of the other countries and yet they still want more. The EU is great for fat cats, but it is a disaster for the working man. We were conned in to joining the Common Market by Ted Heath,who clearly knew what it would lead to, we have been conned over and over again ever since. The door to secret meetings has been slammed in our PM's face once too often and these EU Leaders only have themselves to blame for us leaving.

Cameron's Referendum back fired on him and he walked away. I think Mrs May is turning out to be a strong Leader and I think she is doing a good job. If she does a U-turn I would never trust anyone again. If Mr Corbyn would drop his stance on Trident I would vote for him next time though. He should put away his own ambitions and concentrate on what the country wants. He has his heart in the right place and would stand up for the workers who work all hours to keep this country on its feet. We do not need the EU monster. We are doing alright on our own, as we did before and will do again. I have no fears for the future of our country now.

Ok, *Yorkshiregel. Could you please tell me what we have to offer? That is one of the bits that is eluding me.

The EU army myth? Try this, written by a serving officer in the UK army:

tinyurl.com/zq9rbg4

Good post Yorkshire ( naturally, everybody on here won't like it)

What we have to offer Maizie? We have nothing to offer.....that's why so many want to come and live and work here I guess.

Interesting article Maizie. The officer we know says the same about an EU army and he also said that remaining in the EU is much better for intelligence operations. These people are not 'squaddies' but well educated people with degrees etc. and know what they are talking about.

Just read this article which is very interesting but also very worrying for us all - whichever way we voted - if it is true. It is joining together many facts and ideas I have seen separately over the last few weeks.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/dont-trigger-article-50-vital-questions-dark-money-answered?CMP=share_btn_link

This is downright frightening. Not only is May threatening to walk out of the EU with 'no deal' if she's not happy with the one it looks as if we're getting, but there has been no government assessment of the risks this might pose:

The government has not carried out a full assessment of the potential economic impact of Britain leaving the EU without a trade deal , the Brexit secretary has told a committee of MPs.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/15/brexit-government-assessed-impact-leaving-eu-deal-david-davis?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Which is a bit odd because there are plenty of both pro & anti Leave experts who have done just that...

What we have to offer Maizie? We have nothing to offer.....that's why so many want to come and live and work here I guess.

Sorry, roses, When I say 'What do we have to offer' I mean 'What do we have to trade with the rest of the world that will earn the UK lots of money to compensate for the loss of some trade with EU and the relocation of EU dependent businesses to EU countries with resultant loss of jobs and income?'

I didn't mean 'Why do people want to come to live and work here?'. That's not a money earner. Anyway, they'll stop comong when there are no jobs and no money (isn't that what Leavers wanted? Stop the immigration?)

i

coming

But Maizie we don't want experts any more. Isn't that what Gove told us?

Maizie d / Welshwife

No matter how many times it is said the prospect of an EU Army a 'myth' it does not make it true.

From the very first threads on the European Union Referendum and the 'oh so many' subsequent Brexit Threads posters have raised the subject of the EU Army and this has been ' refuted time and again'.

I believe there will be an EU Army! It may not be called ' The European Union Army' perhaps something like 'The Combined Forces of the European Union' or ' Operational Defence of The European Union '.

I have watched live coverage from the European Parliament and the subject of an EU Army has definitely been debated.

www.politico.eu/article/martin-schulz-hits-back-at-uk-over-eu-army-theresa-may-brexit/

"LONDON — Britain won’t have the power to veto an EU army either before or after Brexit, the president of the European Parliament said Friday during a speech in London.

The idea that the U.K. government could block such a vote was “counterproductive and anyway not possible in this case,” Martin Schulz said, hitting back at U.K. defense secretary Michael Fallon, who said London will resist any attempt to set up “a rival to NATO.

In the fields of security and defense policy, although the EU loses a key member state, paradoxically such a separation could give the necessary impulse for a closer integration of the remaining member states,” Schulz told an audience at the London School of Economics, adding that French and German proposals on security integration had been largely endorsed by the EU27 meeting in Bratislava last week, and were “a clear sign of things to come.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-parliament-nato-backs-plans-create-defence-union-a7432706.html

"The European Parliament has backed plans to create a defence union which will secure structured cooperation between nations as well as a new EU military operational headquarters.

Lawmakers at the European Parliament voted 369-255 in favour of the proposals, which also calls for greater spending by nations on defence.

Although the vote is not legally binding it does represent support for the proposition before the European Council meets in December to discuss Europe’s defence capabilities. "

I'm not at all sure that posters here will value any attempt at bringing a little levity into the conversation, but this from the Times today made me smile:
"Nusrat Ghani, MP for Wealden, has introduced a private bill to require all our embassies to serve British wine and fizz at functions as a post-Brexit pop at the French".

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/775482/Brexit-news-Michael-Fallon-Britain-oppose-creation-EU-army

Not a Myth. This has always been the end game. Read the History of the EU which you can find on-line.

Just because we are coming out of the EU it does not mean we cannot trade with them, which we still will. However, we
can now trade with other countries, we were prevented from doing this by the EU.

We have PLENTY to offer as has been shown with all the offers of a Trade agreement from America, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, and quite a few others. Even some countries such as India and China are joining the queue.

I have two degrees Welshwife, and I have done a ton of research before I voted to leave them behind. We will survive and better than that we will do well. I can understand why people are worried, but there is no need.

yorkshire joining the queue what planet do you inhabit?

It is beginning to get unseemly the way the countries in the EU are fighting over our financial service industry and the plan by many companies to move activities to the remaining 27.

There is areal question over the so called dark money used to support the Brexit campaign, and the resultant interference to our electoral system. Both MI6 and GCHQ have sounded alarm bells.

Mays clear inability at good diplomacy should be a serious cause for concern. Her attitude to date has simply antagonised the various heads of the EU countries.

The inadequacy of Fox and Davis is alarming, and Johnsons ridiculous bumbling is simply seen by other countries as embarressing and unprofessional.

Yorkshiregel, is this not enough to worry about?

Re: the dark money referred to in ww's post above.

'the Electoral Commission is assessing claims that potentially illegal donations were made; the information commissioner is investigating “possible illegal” use of data; the heads of MI6 and GCHQ have both voiced unprecedented warnings about foreign interference in our democratic systems; the government has refused to elaborate on what these are; one of the leave campaigns has admitted the undeclared support and help of the American hedge fund billionaire who backed Trump; the Crown Prosecution Service is being asked to mount a criminal investigation; (from The Guardian newspaper 15/03/2017)

We should be very afraid and we need explanations before the Article is triggered.

In your opinion whitewave ( not shared by everybodyin RL or this forum, or even on this thread.)

Fitzy54 Thank you for that info. I must send this wonderful man an email.
Since the referendum we haven't bought a single thing made in Europe which led to us discovering Cornish Brie, yum yum.

I agree with the worry about this dark money - and higher up this thread I posted a link to the article about the links mentioned. I had seen this mentioned in several places but here they are all put together in one article.

Just because we are coming out of the EU it does not mean we cannot trade with them, which we still will

Yes, when we have negotiated a trade agreement with them. We won't be trading on the same advantageous terms as at present. As May proposes taking us out of the customs union there is also the matter of our goods and theirs clearing customs as they cross our & their borders. With all the extra paperwork which businesses will have to produce and delays as goods are checked.

What is more, to continue trading with the EU we will still have to conform to their regulations for standards etc. So we won't escape them with Brexit.

However, we can now trade with other countries, we were prevented from doing this by the EU.

Another myth. The EU has trade agreements with over 50 countries worldwide which we can trade with as part of the EU. Once we leave all these agreements fall and we will have to renegotiate individually with each country. A process which can take years. And terms are likely to be less advantageous because we don't offer such a large market as does the EU.

DDavis has agreed that it is likely if we leave with no deal some high tariffs will be levied, that tourists to the EU will no longer have access to EHIC cards and we are likely to lose access to the Open Skies so air fares would rise. I can't remember the other points he made but I thought that was a great start.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/03/14/no-deal-brexit-govt-is-bluffing-with-cards-everyone-can-see

Some people have worked out what no-deal means.

I trust Petra hasn't bought a single thing made in China , eaten a single thing picked by an Eastern European, used any electricity from a foreign owned company, etc why not just pull up the drawbridge now.

Not to mention the electricity we import from France and the Netherlands and the gas from Norway.