Martin McGuinness

disgruntled Conservative would not begin to describe the hatred I would feel if that had been a relative of mine.

And I hardly think we on Gransnet need to be careful about posting our thoughts as our blinkered attitudes and uncalled criticism !!! - really? - would hardly be sufficient tip any balance in NI.

I don't think, having lived through those years, our attitudes on here are 'blinkered' and any criticism 'uncalled for'.

Jud - close enough for me though ?

May he R,I,H

If you look at the history of British rule in Ireland, the surprise would have been if we hadn't encouraged a terrorist or two. The British are certainly not innocent in these exchanges, with Bloody Sunday more recently and the famine in the 19th century, something that would never had been allowed on the British mainland. The suffering was truly dreadful, and to ignore such events when looking at the IRA and its subsequent actions leads to the sort of reaction we see on these pages. Even the extent that Catholics were kept out of certain employment must have caused resentment and hatred.

Of course what the IRA did was disgusting, but so did the unionists and British Army take part in outrage. No one comes out of this long period of rule innocent.

McGuiness was poacher turned gamekeeper. We should be thankful to the big leaders who brought peace to Northern Ireland. We should pray it continues.

The death of Mr McG has been all over the Ch4 7pm news tonight, for at least half an hour. I got fed up at that point and went out to the kitchen. It's really too much. A five minute mention would have been quite enough. Any more than that is totally undeserved.

Thanks whitewave for giving a balanced overview. Can I add that the corruption and bias of the Northern Ireland police force only added to the resentment. It has taken years to sort this out. Those who judge the actions of the IRA in isolation are just showing the same lack of understanding that caused the conflict in the first place. It worries me greatly because "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
In the 50s the British thought they had beaten the Irish republican movement. It re-emerged stronger and better organised. Only real recognition of grievances, admission about what really happened and commitment to peace will ensure it continues. McGuiness knew this better than most.

Dont believe for one minute it was all about fighting for a cause,remember the protection rackets,loan sharking, prostitution rackets, money laundering and drug running that the IRA ran as well as the murders. Dont forget the horrors they put Catholic families through because a young catholic girl was pregnant and unmarried. Our the food they took out of childrens mouths when parents had to hand over the last few pounds in their purses for the cause. Freedom Fighters my backside

The death of Martin McGuiness is a significant event and deserves the level of media/news coverage its being given.
The history speaks for itself, Catholics were oppressed, discriminated against etc. I visited Belfast frequently during the late 70's/early 80s to stay with friends. My then 10 year old and her friend were playing in the garden in the peaceful university area of Belfast, they came in to say some local boys had asked what religion they were, what schools they went to. We moved our car away from the house and brought our children inside.
I've never felt that the behaviour of the various republican/loyalist paramilitary groups was justified. Forgiveness is always difficult and thankfully, I'm not in a position with Mr McG where this is something I have to really work at. It's my belief that Martin McGuiness didn't simply join the peace movement because it was easier, or helped him avoid prosecution. I believe he believed the only way to achieve peace in NI was by negotiation. The friendship he developed with Ian Paisley speaks to the genuine commitment both these men showed to the peace process. RIP Martin McGuiness and thanks for your contribution to peace.

www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/bloody_friday_belfast

Just a little reminder to those who cite Bloody Sunday (I don't condone this). This is an example of what we had to deal with in Belfast in 1972. I was caught up in this and remember running through the centre of Belfast trying to find a place of safety. Please please look at it!

granny violence breeds violence. Wherever there is terrorism in the world you will get the sort of situation you described. Can you imagine this happening if the whole of Eire had seceded from Britain in 1923?

Violence on the scale of the troubles would never have happened.

It's easy to forget just how bad things were. Truly awful.

jud I suspect this was as a reaction to Bloody Sunday. The point I am trying to make is that it does no good picking over old bones. Every living soul in Northern Ireland probably feels they have cause for resentment. But now there is peace and Paisley and McGiness should be recognised for their contribution.

It is dreadful Jud but I noted as well that the IRA apologised for this in 2002. It took the British Government until 2010 to apologise for Bloody Sunday.
2 terrible examples of violence but it was the 'terrorists' who admitted responsibility first and led the peace process.

This was just one example of what was going on Trisher and ww You will see from my posts that I acknowledge how MMcG was instrumental in moving the Peace Process forward, but my example (just one of the many, many horrendous bombings perpetrated by the IRA) was to try to explain why many people feel so bitter and find it difficult to forgive. It is so hard for us to forget what was done during this period. You in England had a taster of what we had to deal with continuously for years. And once the loyalists got in there, the hell took a further downward spiral.

BTW the IRA were doing these things before Bloody Sunday. That just escalated things further.

jud as you said no one including the British are innocent in these atrocities. We should look forward with everything crossed for continued peace.

Judthepud your posts are the most real and reasonable because you lived through it. We did have the dread on mainland UK of going into cities, we lived in London during much of it and a friend just missed a nail bomb by a minute or so but it would have been a daily dread where you were.

I was there just before the troubles escalated but was told to keep my mouth shut in Belfast just in case my English accent caused some trouble in certain areas. The friends I was with were both Protestant and Catholic and dreaded what they thought the future would hold.

When there is suppression there will be resentment, anger, . it seeps through the generations. What made Bloody Sunday cause such anger is British citizens on a peaceful march were gunned down by British soldiers , the very people who should have protected them, murdered them. We are not talking terrorists but the British Army.

I do believe MM did as Mandela did and turned from violence to peaceful means to end the slaughter on both sides .

If MM rots in hell, then the soldiers who gunned down unarmed British citizens deserve the same,? but I don't wish that on anyone

If the IRA had not existed and been murderously active, then there would have been no need for any defence force to act against them or indeed, a peace process

wow, you have NO idea what you're talking about
I have no sympathy for the IRA but they are not the only terrorists in NI and the IRA grew as a reaction to terrorism from unionists not the other way round, you've got your chickens and your eggs mixed up there love!

There was a long bloody cycle of reactionary revenge on both sides, but the violence towards Irish Catholics came first.

That doesn't in any way justify the long bloody cycles of revenge, but it is totally inaccurate to say that without the IRA they'ld have been no troubles, there were troubles before the IRA, ever heard of the black'n'tans?

The Black and Tans came after the IRA.

You will need to go back to the 12th century if you want to trawl back through history to see where this all started (or at least where English, or maybe more accurately Norman involvement began) and if take the trouble to do so and trace things from there you'll see things are not quite as clear as you think.

only if you're confusing your IRAs, pre independance IRA/IRB is not the same IRA as the terrorists. Most of the pre independance IRA became the actual legitimate Irish Army! And many of it's members denounced the use of the name by terrorists

if take the trouble to do so and trace things from there you'll see things are not quite as clear as you think That was my point. The IRA didn't start it. That doesn't make it okay, but it's not true that there were no troubles before the IRA.

People also need to be aware of how much propaganda is portrayed by the BBC, IRA attacks were reported as IRA attacks, but unionist claimed attacks, not so much! So from the viewpoint of the UK it did look like it was just one group.

As for Bloody Sunday, that was terrible but doesn't compare with the continual and deliberate bombing and shooting of innocents for decades. The British army were there to try and keep the peace and put themselves in the middle of two warring factions to do this. Many died. We can all do without people now saying they were as bad as the terrorists.

I'm not confused at all. Nor do I need any help in identifying propaganda.