Martin McGuinness

They did well covering up Hillsborough and Orgreave .

Jalima, we cannot and should not compare our troops or government with Syria

Harken back to Kilmainham Goal, it all started somewhere and it never ends.

So amnesty for acts of terror however brutal are ok, but not for the army sent there to try and keep some sort of order under extremely difficult and at times terrifying circumstances. Remember the patrol who took a wrong turn and ran into an IRA, I think it was a wedding party, and were torn to pieces. But hey ho, that's fine, they were young British Soldiers and presumably for some people they deserved it, which of course justified it, and no one was guilty of their murder!

I'm sure South Wales hated Churchill, but they'd have hated Hitler more!!!!!

Very easy to criticise those whose job it is to keep us safe.

Have a look at breaking news NOW.

Niggly, what has Hitler to do with a 1911 strike ?

Niggly, just read your post on the two soldiers, you are wrong sorry, they did not take a wrong turn, the Arny were told to avoid that area on that day, a funeral was being held and the soldiers drove amongst the line of cars carrying the mourners , no one accidently gets into a line of cars carrying mourners. They then drove to the churchyard, the one was giving the other soldier a tour of the area. He did not avoid the area he was told to avoid.

As I understand it they took a wrong turn by mistake, and you're right it was a funeral, but whatever it was they didn't deserve what happened to them, and surely nothing excuses it?
As for Churchill, I was just commenting that at the end of the day be must have been preferable to Hitler even in South Wales.

My ancestors were mown down at the Battle of Peterloo in Manchester, August 1819. Troops were sent in to curb upitty workers. The survivors went on to work in mills in Manchester, where towards the end of that century life expectancy in Manchester was around 20 years of age. I've Welsh, Irish, Scottish and Polish relatives. Our latest family member is part Burmese. As a family therefore, we have our share of historical connections to oppression and empire. My point is, at what point do we become brave enough to accept out past isn't perfect and try to move forward positively.
On the relationship threads, there is always a lot of discussion about forgiveness, or at least acceptance and attempts to either reconcile or at least live in peace. Is it too much to hope we can achieve that in these islands.

All governments have pasts that have been at times pretty grim, even the peaceful Dutch are not exactly proud of their time in the Dutch East Indies. This constant harking back to the past that none of us can do anything about,mostly over 100 years ago, is just not conducive to moving forward in peace and reconciliation, which If we don't, there is no hope for any of us.
Oh dear, a terrorist attack, so much for my hopes!!!

Jalima, we cannot and should not compare our troops or government with Syria
I agree with you absolutely anniebach but to read some posts on some threads you would think Great Britain, the British Governments over the years were the absolute epitome of evil.

Niggly, I wasn't defending the attack or excusing it, just posting the truth , it could have been avoided but wasn't and cost them their lives. One was new in Ireland, the driver was showing off, what a heavy price to pay and such a horrific death

British governments have never been perfect , never whiter than white but certainly not evil Jalima, we have had far more honest politicians than dishonest

No I know you weren't annie, let's face it it was all SO dreadful that it does evoke strong emotions, and perhaps best left!

Paddyann the army went in to protect the Catholics, were welcomed but then it all started to go wrong- and not their fault. You are talking total rubbish

Now that the cowardly murdering bastard Martin McGuinness is dead, we have to hope that Gerry Adams follows shortly!
Horrible of me to say it, I know, but having lost a good friend to an IRA bomb, I have no sympathy or time for murdering scum!

Your anger is understandable, when thstcher died there were people in NI who felt as you do

At heart I am a peacemaker and a pacifist. I welcomed the reduction of violence in NI following the implementation of the peace protest - and had strong personal reasons for doing so. Martin McGuinness had a major part to play in bringing about that peace and I applaud that, even though I doubt his intentions were altruistic. However, I am also a believer in justice and I do think that the consequences of wrong/illegal actions should be punishable without fear or favour - it's the view of many people that Martin McGuinness literally got away with murder, therefore it isn't surprising if his death has brought about mixed reactions.

AB the soldiers referred to who were brutally killed got lost. If you knew anything about Belfast you would realise that it is still very easy to move unwittingly from one political area to another when driving along the myriad and complex interfaces. I used to work across community organisations in Belfast and had various strategies to cope with the vigilance that was maintained in the areas. Knowing a key name to drop if questioned and stopping at the many watching huddles to ask directions and explain my presence there was another. It was very dicey in those days. For soldiers (easily identifiable by their clean cut appearance in the days of long hair and droopy moustaches) off duty it was lethal. What happened to those unfortunate young men was savage mob violence and incited by the shadowy men. No excuse for it at all.

And yes Fitzy you are correct. The British army were first sent in to protect some of the beleaguered nationalist areas which were surrounded by loyalist areas and subjected to stone throwing and verbal abuse night after night. One of the first areas to be protected was Short Strand a few miles from where I lived at the time. They were initially welcomed with open arms and many a cup of tea, until things went pear shaped.

www.belfastinterfaceproject.org/interfaces-map-and-database-overview

For those who might be interested, here is some data about the 99 interfaces in Belfast, now marked by walls but not in the early days of the Troubles. Yes, I'm afraid we are still a divided society.

Then Judthepud, you know more about it than the best mate of the one who was being driven and who was in the same quarters as the driver

Well as McGuinness held religious beliefs he has gone to meet his Maker
His God will have the final say.
If it turns out that there is no higher being then he is just dust and his efforts on behalf religion and God were futile at the very least

I will never forget what happened to those Servicemen in N.I. The video shown by the media was bad enough but i was shown the unedited video and it proves what animals the ira were and still are.I was also in N.I when they shot at a school bus. Now try and justify that and tell me Mcguinness and Adams are decent. They and there idiotic followers are scum

I haven't read this thread through but there was a very appropriate comment in the DT this morning. It said in his obituary that he left a widow, in fact he left hundreds.