Brexit - the end of the beginning - the negotiations begin

MazieD. Yep!

All the way since the referendum I have found it incomprehensible that no one in my hearing has seem to understand that when you leave a job, club or any other organisation you leave behind all that goes with it. So in this instance no free trade, free movement tariff free trade etc etc. Now you have reached a point where you throw a six and start again and try to enter the game again from zero negotiating and trying to get some sort of a deal from those you have just left. The deal you get depends on their generosity and their needs from you. All this talk of hard or soft brexit is so much hot air. The EU at this precise moment is in the driving seat. Britain can go forward on their own we have led the world in so many things and can do it again we just have to give up the EU comfort blanket and get down to earning our living again; there are no free lunches.

JessM thank you for the link to Article 50. will read it when I have time. have a good Bank Holiday weekend.

Wow! Why don't you lot just send your sons and grandsons off to war and show those pesky Europeans who's the boss? Merkel was right when she claimed that some in Britain have illusions.

MaizieD........ none of us can be sure or certain about any of the negotiations surrounding the leaving of the EU , and that includes yourself and anyone else on here who hoped to Remain.The negotiations are all to come.

Jackthelad,
Please can you explain to me why the EU is in the driving seat? As you say once you leave a club you leave......you don't pay them to let you leave. The EU exports more to us than we do to them, so who is going to hurt most if it comes to tit for tat tariffs? We are I think the second biggest contributor to EU funds (not totally sure on that so correct me if I am wrong) which is why they are in a panic about their finances. Germany does not even contribute its required amount to NATO. Who is going to fill the black hole.....Greece? France? Ha!
I have no problem with Scotland being independent, as long as they understand what it means.....no handouts from England. With the oil revenue falling, and likely to fall more if shale drilling continues to grow both here and in America, I would be interested to know how they would balance the books.
Giberalter voted to remain in the Eu....it also voted to remain British.
Why do people keep saying we are only a tiny little island ? We have always been a tiny little island, but we have done great things.....and yes I know some bad ones too. We still have a voice in the world, and if we all pull together we can have a greater one.
We are NOT turning our back on the people of Europe, we still want to and will trade with them. We just want to not be part of their cork brained ideas such as carting the whole parliament up and down the road to satisfy someone's ego.
I don't want to be European, I am British, in fact I am English, or if we get right down to it I am Cornish.....and proud of it. Now there's a thought.....independence for Cornwall please?
Margaret

Kernow Power!

Not sure about that though, as I fear a shortage of pasties.Or expensive ones.Wish I hadn't mentioned them ( I want one *right now*)

Roses.....now you've made me want one also.....and a scone......with the cream on top of the jam if you please!
Margaret

Totally agree, Hollycat! What they are doing regards Gibraltar is shameful!

MargaretinNorthant I like your style
Twice in my working life bosses have had the cheek to tell me ' you can't leave'
Twice I have said " just you bloody watch me"
I know that if I was in TMs shoes I would have given them the finger long ago, what can they do? we have the whip hand ( and they know it)

I saw an article recently which recommended that TM should go to the EU and say "What have you got to offer me? I have no preconceived ideas/plans?" That would flummox the boffins in Brussels and, I hope, reduce the vindictiveness and spitefulness that seems to have infiltrated the negotiation plans.
What a shame that such a good idea should have descended into farce!

There is no vindictiveness and spitefulness on the part of the EU. The UK entered contracts and need to fulfill them. Much of the money being asked for is for things such as salaries and pensions for UK citizens who have been working in Brussels on behalf of the UK - are you suggesting we walk away from paying them?
The Eu countries do not want the UK to leave despite the fact that EU institutions at the moment in the Uk will need to move to remain in the EU will mean more jobs etc for their citizens. If the UK asks to stay within the club they will be allowed to do so.
The EU may well sell in monetary terms more goods to UK but that is from 27 countries - percentage wise it is far less than the 40+% we sell to them. The U.K. needs to find markets for these goods - some of which will not be possible as they are part of EU/UK consortiums. Once these agreements finish they are unlikely to be renewed.
The main problem with all this is that if after the UK has left it finds that trade deals with countries other than the EU are not so easy and eventually decides to ask to rejoin the EU the terms will be nowhere as good as the current ones.
To fill the skills gap which will arise once people stop moving to the UK there will need to be qualified British people. Years to plan and train all the people necessary and little time to do it.

no, I'm not, but... what about the millions that the K has contributed towards real estate and bulidings etc. Will they be refunded the value?

Well said MargaretinNorthant! My kitchen is full of Neff and Bosch. What will they do if we cannot buy then. Young people seem to think they will not be able to go to Europe anymore? We went travelling in the 50's and 60's. Joined the Common Market not a new state. It seems that Mrs Merkell is the boss. I have said in previous posts "even though they lost a war they seem to have become top dog in the end" so much for all our men fighting them to put them back in their place.

They are more worried about the money they will loose and the fact that Britain is the only country who obeys all the rules. We should pull out now and pay them as little as possible just hope we do not play by their rules.

Yesterday I read an report (sorry have not got the thread) that in the UK 0.7% of the population are millionaires - 78% of UK M.Ps are millionaires. So whose interests will be paramount.? The Independent ran an article last week which said that the only people in the UK rubbing their hands together over the next few years will be the hedge fund managers. Remind me - what business is the husband of our Prime Minister involved with?
I think it will be a rough time ahead for "The People" of any political allegiance - unless you are one of the 0.7%. Interesting times .
Linking to another of today's threads regarding if one would be a past or future time traveller, I definitely would like to be around to see the outcome of all this present turmoil as I do fear for our grandchildren.

Welshwife. Naturally we will pay what we OWE, and I am sure that with our attention to detail in all things financial, we know EXACTLY what that is. This huge arbitrary figure being banded about comes from an organisation which hasn't had its books audited for over 20 years! Do they seriously think we are just going to accept a bill, based on the most flimsy of calculations, because unless we do they will refuse to negotiate with us? Would you accept household bills drawn up in such a manner? Then as a country, why should we? We are entering these talks in a realistic and pragmatic fashion, but our counterparts in Europe are out to extract every brass farthing, and somehow believe we will roll over and agree to all their terms and conditions however bizarre.

"Fluid" doesn't even begin to describe the current situation... and just wait until the elections in both France and Germany have been completed. Everything related to both UK and the EU is sheer speculation at the moment. As for Scotland joining the EU separately, how likely is it that countries such as Spain, France and Belgium who all have their own internal "separatist" issues will reward a country which has "separated" by saying "welcome, come on in"... ? So much self-delusion about so many issues on all sides...

My sentiments exactly, Hollycat. Thank you!

The UK electorate voted to leave the EU (well, only SOME of them ....some were not given a vote, especially those living and or working in other EU countries who had been away from the UK for 15 years), Others voted to remain. This has caused great division with the UK (despite TM declaring the people of the UK are coming together,,,oh yes ? For the Referendum the choice was LEAVE or REMAIN, No manifesto or plan was ever published outlining either the benefits or drawbacks of either decision. First mistake. Ridiculous and unattainable promises on the sides of busses by the likes of Farage and Johnson .....again, empty promises that would not or could not ever be fulfilled. Promises of immediately taking back control of the borders ....? no mention of how this was going to be achieved, People believed the hype, People believed it because, as in Germany before the war, a majority of people felt disenfranchised and forgotten. They saw only what affected them directly ,,,jobs being taken by 'foreigners; (no mention of the fact that a lot of these jobs were jobs they would, or indeed in some cases, had refused to do) (farming work, packing, etc), They were not given, or told an actual likely idea of what reality would be, In part because no one had any idea either .....not Farage, not Johnson, not Cameron who never expected to lose and so made no plan or provision for that outcome,

Result: chaos. I don't blame the other 27 for saying THEY will decide what may or may not be conceded to the UK and they are not going to bend over backwards to accommodate any 'demands' made by TM ..why should they ? Whatever the outcome someone will suffer .....the UK has declared it will form trade arrangements with others ..uh hu ! Trump has now declared he will re consider the U S trading agreements with the UK ....companies are already laying off people (take the latest one, Nestle) as the UK has no concrete basis to work on as regards future trade deals, etc.

Obviously living in France I voted Remain ....why do I have this feeling things will not be getting better !! I agree with Welshwife in all that she said.

May we live in interesting times (old Chinese proverb !)

They may have to accomodate a few UK demands VIOLETTE if they want the money!

You've hit the nail on the head Hollycat! Of course we will pay what we owe, after perusing up-to-date audited accounts; but we certainly won't be paying a bill plucked out of thin air with a knife at our throats. It's perfectly obvious that the EU is desperate for our money, and they would sooner bankrupt us if they can't get it way into the future! Remember how they treated Greece, and probably still will. No wonder other member states are so cowed! Standing up to the EU isn't for the faint hearted! But like GN really!!!

So you live in France Violette and voted iIN presumably because your lifestyle may be disrupted? You're going to be in a difficult position if Marine Le Pen gets in then, aren't you? What will you do? Come home? Awkward!

Are you entitled to be called "X" if you live in country "Y" for more than 15 years? You can't have your cake and eat it, you know. A choice has to be made...
Of course, the ex-pats would vote "IN" if they had the vote. I can't blame them.
But should the EU bankrupt us as they have been threatening ever since the Referendum was called. Don't forget how nasty Tusk and Junker were this time last year!

It sounds to me a very fair statement, and I am only surprised that there was such unanimity among the other 27 members of the EU.
Good for them.

A shame that May decided to have an election so that we have even less time to get an agreement with them.