Brexit - the end of the beginning - the negotiations begin

WW I definately agree the referendum could have been on clearer terms, and with the minimum age being 16. But May inherited a leaving vote and she is taking massive criticism over how she has dealt with things since becoming PM. I'm can't really see what she could have done to get us in a better position since then, other than just effectively ignore the referendum.
I'm not sure if you are saying she should re-run the vote now? I don't see how that could work. It's a dog's breakfast but the cause was the vote, not really TMs efforts to do as instructed (ok - "advised").

Something else she didn't have to do was have that meal with Juncker. She set it all up so she could have that confrontation before she made that speech today.

Sneaky and smug today.

Many on here love to quote Article 50 and how we should stick to the letter of the law herein.
Can I just point out what Mr Verhofstadt ( eu negotiator) thinks of Article 50.
He thinks it's ambiguous. "It's not so precise but the lack of precision gives us an opportunity to apply it in different ways"
So basically it doesn't mean jack shit, we can both take or dismiss parts of it that we like or not.

It's come to something when john snow ( another high priest of the left wing) is defending TMs speech outside No.10

That's what people on here have been trying to tell you for ages.
The man who wrote it didn't expect it to be used.
It also says we can back out of it if we want to, but nobody reads that part of it either.

David Cameron and a vote in the H of C (Labour voted with the government) stated quite clearly that the result of the referendum would be implemented, so how could TM revoke this when she undoubtedly agreed?.

I couldn't give a flying fig what JS has said - that speech was unbelievable - she knows the deal is going to be a disaster and is getting her excuses in early - God help us all

I never thought of Jon Snow as being left wing. I must watch him with more interest from now on.

Fitzy 18.04

"KS has put forward Labours idea but didn't refer to free movement at all."

Um , hello, have you read my post yesterday 23.39 and others?

"Keir Starmer / Labour state:-

Free Movement of People 'HAS TO END'

Free Movement of People 'RULED OUT AS IT IS'.

Freedom of Movement will have to have 'NEW IMMIGRATION RULES'

How can we 'CHERRY PICK' as Labour believes we can , well not only them but many posters too it seems."

I have asked a question re Starmer Speech / Labours position on Free Movement/Union Customs on two threads, might try on others but it is a question that nobody will answer so I can only assume that there is an understanding Starmer/Labour have a totally ridiculous stance on Free Movement as it cannot be done without agreeing to the EU 4 Pillars.

Starmer / Labour quite rightly have been ridiculed for his speech making little sense.

Excellent article here by Stephen Kinnock. He knows more than most about the EU.

labourlist.org/2017/05/stephen-kinnock-tory-brexit-failings-shows-theyre-the-coalition-of-chaos/

a vote in the H of C (Labour voted with the government) stated quite clearly that the result of the referendum would be implemented,

So all the MPs ignored the briefing paper they were given which said that the referendum was advisory? I don't recall that at the time (though someone might search Hansard to tell me differently). The bill they voted on said nothing about the result being binding.

It was Cameron's idiotic bright idea to announce that the result would be respected by his government.

Ok Mazie. But what should TM do now? Kinnock's article had nothing concrete in it at all.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-03/jpmorgan-to-move-hundreds-of-staff-to-three-eu-offices-on-brexit

D.C said the result would be respected and when the H of C voted they agreed including Labour! No doubt they thought it was in the bag! What's the point in having a referendum with all the baggage that goes with it, if the result is pre decided?! Surely it's completely pointless and deceitful. Like Henry Ford, 'you can choose the colour of your car so long as it's black'! Not much point asking!!! Why would anyone bother to vote if they know the result is pre decided? But then of course, they're not told that till afterwards! Mind you , you'd never bother to vote again!!including General Elections! Whose to say they wouldn't be overturned if they turn up the 'wrong' result!

POGS I read your post and think I gave a reply but basically I agree. I can't really understand how KSs proposal works unless he intends to accept free movement.

Thank you for replying Fitzy.

I didn't post Kinnock's article, Fitzy

I think this heavy handed inflexible attitude from the eu is more a warning sign to the French. Although most are of the opinion that Macron will win, you never know. Trump & Brexit being an example of experts being wrong.

Well, now that T May has given the EU politicians and officials a broadside ( anybody think they probably deserved it ?)we shall await Brussels' side of the story ( amazed hurt?)

I agree Petra

Mazie, apologies. I was posting both yourself and DJ but didn't make myself clear.

Serves Theresa May right for calling an election in the middle of Brexit negotiations.

Not very sensible or strategic.

Kinnock doesn't have to say what he would do. But May needs to negotiate, not chastise the other party in the negotiations, Fitzy.
She hasn't done herself or us any favours today. I bet she goes into hiding again tomorrow, too.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/03/the-force-may-be-with-you-in-a-strong-and-stable-war-on-brussels

......or was it??

DJ Kinnock doesn't have to say anything at all but if he wants to be in any way helpful as opposed to simply engage in meaningless electioneering he needs to do more than simply say something along the lines of "we'll be nice to the EU and sort it all out."