Brexit - the end of the beginning - the negotiations begin

They are not threatening to bankrupt us. They are only asking for what we had agreed to pay as part of our membership.

Lovely post Hollycat!!!!!

The UK knows the amount of money they agreed to pay for certain projects - probably some things the UK will benefit from too - and that is what is being asked for and money to pay pensions etc.
It is far cheaper for the UK to have a lot of its citizens living in the EU as the health costs they pay the various Govts per person is far less than the cost of covering the same number for treatment at home. I cannot remember the amount but it is getting towards half price.
Marine Le Pen is actually not talking about Brit pensioners as they do a lot of good for France as she is well aware, and the same is for those living in Spain. France has other immigration issues which she sees as a problem. She is toning down what she says also as the election gets closer. Anyone choosing to return to UK will have their own reasons - probably family related.
The Eu accounts are all up to date - a bit like another bent banana story.
The EU was well aware that the people who voted to leave would see them as the bad guys having been fed such baloney by the UK's Govt for months. It was written in the agreement for exiting the Union that the remaining members would have the deciding votes on the deal to leave. Nothing has changed - they have stuck to the story all though. You know as well as I do that this phrase we keep hearing of the U.K. Coming together is a load of tosh and the line being taken is than when brainwashing you just keep reiterating something till people believe it and then all else seems untrue.

I didn't say they were threatening to bankrupt us, I said that they would sooner bankrupt us! dj, do you pay large bills, car repairs, that sort of thing, without a proper detailed account?!! I know I don't!! The EU hasn't had a proper audit for over twenty years!! What a way to run things!!

Paddyann. You are why we voted Leave so only yourself to blame. I am happy to be braindead if we lose the financial burden of Remoaning Scots.

Please could you explain what you mean Hattiehelga because I'm sure I don't understand.

Yes, it has nigglynellie. I'm afraid that's fake news.

Le Pen is a racist. France's immigration problems stem from its colonial past and she knows it.

"But should the EU bankrupt us as they have been threatening ever since the Referendum was called. Don't forget how nasty Tusk and Junker were this time last year!"
Grandmattie said this. Don't jump to conclusions, niggly.

fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

Something else you got wrong.
In fact, many of the errors are in the UK accounting system.

The remainers like Paddyann just can not accept a decision that did not go their way and resort to name calling to vent their frustration daphnedill. Their outbursts during the referendum runup made the decision easirr for many undecided Leavers.

The emotion shown by some is proof that they are not entering negotiations in a realistic and pragmatic fashion.

The latest polls are showing that the number of people who think Brexit was a mistake is creeping up.

So much for being united as a country. I don't think so, Mrs May.

Pots and kettles spring to mind.

Anyway, the tide is turning.

Evidence, daphnedill?

Apparently, the validity of EU accounting is a matter of opinion! A bit hit and miss, like most dealings with the EU over the past heaven knows how long!

Nearly right Welshwife. The accounts have been signed off each year from 2007 by the Court of Auditors. That's "signed off" not agreed. This last time the Court felt that 4.4% of the total were not used in accordance with EU Rules but signed them anyway. They also found the money given to various countries was poor value. Three airports built in Poland received £100m in funding but have not attracted business. A mountain lift in Sicily received £2m but cannot be used because of operating costs just 2 examples. Marine Le Pen may not be talking about Brit pensioners but she IS talking Frexit - hence my reply to Violette. And yes, we do pay the health costs of our citizens abroad which is NOT cheap, but are tardy in recovering expenses incurred by EU members here. We tend to think it might be termed "racist" for some reason, I believe the May govt is on this now. Yes, once the deal is struck any one of the 27 can veto it - look what happened to Canada recently. Then what? We start again? I guess this is why Theresa May reiterated her view on "no deal" on Marr this morning.

When Cameron went to the EU and came back with nothing he was so sure that we would all vote to stay in, and those in the EU knew that, hence the reason he never got no-where.

Had he told the EU unless he went back with something they will want out, then he may have got somewhere. In Norway where I have family they are not in the EU as such but the have open borders /free trading [Although not many want to go there because of the bad winters] They have held two referendums and both times they have voted NO. Talking to a farmer this lunch-time he told me that for the first time in his life-time he is NOT voting Tory but the LibDems. |If you knew him like I do you would be shocked.

Grandmatty, there is more in the Telegraph from Variufakis today and, yes, it is terrifying. It makes me realise we did the right thing in trying to extricate ourelves from such an authoritarian and deceiving bunch. The only question is:- ' can we get out or are we lobsters in the pot?'

They have come in with a negotiating stance that best suits them. Why wouldn't they? To my mind it's in no way fair or reasonable, but why should it be. Our response may not be very fair or reasonable either. We're both out for all we can get. But those who think we are in the driving seat are deluding themselves. No other EU country faces losing over 40% of its export market overnight. Nothing like it.

Fitzy54. I fully agree with what you say.

Opinions are all very well, and we all have a right to express them, but let's face facts. None of us knows what's really going on with brexit - we are reliant on propaganda which is spoon fed to us by the media.
I'm not very convinced that the Govt knows what's going on either - they seem to be a corrupt, self-serving, dopey and profligate crowd on the whole.
I am seriously worried and feel that my only option is to bury my head in the sand and pretend to ignore the horrors that are shortly to be visited upon us!

At the moment we pay to belong to the EU as tax payers. If they introduce a tariff then the companies will pay the tariff. They can deal with it rather money taken from us. It may mean we pay a little extra but we will have that choice. It will also make British companies and farmers more competitive. Also we have a company that sells to the whole world. Everyone buys. In fact it's now a little cheaper with the pound being more competitive. We need desperately to export and our exports are going up. We need new money. To pay for the NHS etc. More entrepreneurial people because unless we do this country will get poorer and poorer. The government needs to encourage small businesses and encourage people to start new businesses. If the costas of this world went, small independents would start up employing themselves and others. Globalisation has hit us hard and people are poorer and all on the EU watch.

I think we are in big trouble if Gina Miller (funded by tax exile Richard Branson) or the Tony Blair/Alistair Campbell alliance get their way. They are all trying to highjack the negotiations for their own advantage.

Worldwide poverty - the real, screaming, class of poverty not seen in this country for hundreds of years, has reduced massively over the last 20 years or so, and a major reason (not the only reason) is globalisation. And you are right Lyndie - richer countries like ours have suffered. If we stopped outsourcing jobs kept them all here, and if we put up trade barriers so third world countries couldn't sell us their goods, those countries wouldn't be doing so well. But as it is, some of our wealth has gone to them. We might not like that, but I don't think we should try to take the moral high ground.

Interesting, intotheblue.

You are only 'nearly right 'too Holly it is little that they have to quibble about and much of the money they question is repaid. Not fraudulent accounts as people imply.

Le Pen has become quiet on the Frexit front - and she is not talking of leaving the Euro either - possibly a dual system - Franc for within France and Euro for international -!!!! Sounds pretty easy !!!

If you look at the figures for the health care you will find that it it is less for people in the EU than those who remain in the UK. I have seen the figures given a few times.

None of that is what really bothers me - it is the position our youngsters will find themselves in - hopefully they may still have access to the Erasmus Scheme which does them so much good. We have Young British people going through the University in Brussels so they are qualified to work in the EU - these are young people who have already done a couple of degrees to make them well able for their jobs. There are something like a dozen Brits going through at the moment. They will be able to finish their qualifications but unlikely to be able to take up a position there - will need to widen their horizons.

There are also small companies which export with no duty at the moment - the additional cost of duty plus paperwork may change things for the worst for them. Where companies are cross border and using several countries to make components it may well make the UK side of the business too expensive. I so hope these companies have a plan B at least.

It is always so much harder to extricate yourself from anything than to join. There are probably more snags to come to light as the process progresses.

ITB all they are doing is encouraging tactical voting to increase the pro- soft Brexit represention in Parliament, which, after all, would do no more than serve to better represent the views of the large minority that voted remain. Hardly hijacking the negotiations?