Should I vote Labour Mark 11

Corbyn is hooking voters like those fairground ducks, with the promise of fairyland for all, ( paid for by printing money and borrowing billions) which makes him popular.If there could have been no tuition fees for all, other governments including Labour would have done it, what a vote winner! But Labour had to introduce them after wanting the 50% of young people to go to university, a clear social experiment, since 50% were not academic/intelligent enough to go to University.So, uni's had to be brought down a level or two, converting polytechnics into them and dumbing down courses.Pushing media studies and so on.All that it did is give young people big debts and not much chance of a good job.
Slowly, that should be put right, and some of these uni's allowed to 'die off' naturally.
Set no targets for University 'filling' and get back to the natural levels we had before Blair's experiment.
While doing that, other things could be encouraged that are more suited to the pupils and would lead to good well paid jobs.
Instead if that, we now have a Labour government prepared to pay for everything,
Including all the mickey mouse subjects that lead only to a job in a shop that could have been done from age 16.

.....and yes, I know personally of two young women who are doing just that, and have been for a while, shopworkers with huge Uni debt.

If Corbyn wins the GE the NHS will save millions, he will trot around the country - laying on of hands ,

Moderate MP's? Moderate in what sense? Moderate is such a fluffy word isn't it. It makes you feel we should give all these 'moderate' MPs a hug. Perhaps they are actually not moderate; I have certainly seen very little moderation if you are talking about the right-wing of the Labour Party.

Some years ago, I believe John MacDonald did say he was a Marxist but he has since said he is not - and after all only he knows - but he has said that Marx said many interesting things. Only a very closed mind would think that was not true. You may not agree with the 'interesting things' but that doesn't stop them adding to overall views available for us to study, think about and agree or disagree with.

As for 'Corbyn used to be called a trot', I could call you a donkey RAR but that doesn't make you a donkey.

I don't think he is a moderate but I do not think he is the spawn of Satan as he is being set up by some to be either. I think he is presenting interesting arguments and balancing the distance we have moved towards the far right. I think some of his policies bare investigating and that some of them rightly challenge the extreme Capitalism we have seen over recent years. That makes him neither saint nor sinner but interesting if you can open you mind and stop taking offence, although I do realise some can't.

Honest people find lies and hypocrisy unacceptable

Nutall used the Manchester murders yesterday for campaign

Corbyn is to use it today

Shame on both

Again, your opinion AB. These aren't actually my words but I totally agree. My family have links with Manchester and I am angry that this wicked, wicked man was in the position to do what he did. This was in an email I received this morning and a cannot say it better.

It will be interesting to see how Corbyn's call to lead with the position that foreign policy led to the current terrorist threat is received, as he is completely correct.

I am very angry about Manchester because it is so avoidable, both directly in not tracking a guy traveling frequently to radicalized Syria and indirectly in the government for providing the breeding ground with hawkish foreign policy and for creating a society where someone raised in the U.K. could feel so alienated from it. Every government of the last 27 years should feel culpable.

And McDonnell used the 'Little Red Book' in Parliament as a 'joke' didn't he. .

Well to be fair it did get a good laugh at the time and he does like to spout some pretty horrible things and say with his grin ' Well, look I was only kidding'. Yep, kidding the few , not the many!

Enter John McDonnell on google and hear him 'state' ,'I'll be honest with you , I am a Marxist." on youtube.

There is a truth to the 'rewriting of history' line but hopefully 'The Many, Not The Few' will not be taken in by spin and concentrate on hard facts.

GG everyone is angry. Come the labour win ISIS will be in Westminster for a cuppa . Just as the IRA were invited five weeks after the Brighton bombing 1984

The good Friday agreement ? 1998 and Corbyn voted against it

Only the few POGS? The latest poll has given the Theresa May Party only a five point lead. The way this is going she will only prove she has her own mandate, which was never in question. I wonder how close to her back the far right Tory knives will be if that is all she does.

Keep laughing, being condemnatory and outright rude those of you who don't take others opinions seriously. That is exactly what has led to huge swings in other countries.

"Come the labour win ISIS will be in Westminster for a cuppa" - sorry AB, that is just a ridiculous statement, not even worthy of being an opinion - or a joke.

It isn't just ridiculous, angelab, it comes from pure hate; it is a hateful statement.

AB please explain how making such a statement is appropriate after the deaths of people who will support all the parties and none. You are talking for no one else, just pouring out your bile.

Why is it a joke Angelab, the IRA were invited five weeks after the Brighton bombings . Corbyn is using the Manchester murders in his bid to win votes and I am accused of pouring out bile? I am sickened by it .

It has to be discussed but not as a means to win votes , dear God people are grieving,brightened, angry and Corbyn is stoking the flames , the only other leader to do so is UKIP

Carry on your praise and defence of this man, it sickens me

Really Annie, as I said in my post - it's not a joke.

The two situations aren't even comparable - N Ireland is part of the UK and at some point there had to be talks.

The labour party is not all about JC, any more than the conservatives are about TM, so whether you like him personally is irrelevant (or should be).

Are you really suggesting that it would be better if the labour party lost, than to win with him as leader? as a labour party member??

If there could have been no tuition fees for all, other governments including Labour would have done it, what a vote winner!

The tory government didn't do it because it conflicted directly with their belief in 'austerity' economics.

The votes it 'might' have won them would be those of students. Tories aren't interested in students because they don't vote in sufficient numbers. They are far more interested in getting the votes of the rich and the old.

GG MK 2

Believe me I am not laughing !

GGM2 most of the time I ignore your posts, but really! You say being condemnatory and rude those of you who don't take others opinions seriously
Where exactly are you seeing that? What rude posts have you received, because I am not seeing any.
....and it's McDonnell not McDonald ( annie uses it for fun)

If labour did win and no tuition fees come September for England what about Welsh students ? Corbyn hasn't mentioned extra money for Welsh labour to do the same - the many not the few !

That's a spurious claim MaizieD as students and their families would have come out in droves to vote if the Conservatives had ever put the idea of 'free for all' forward, of course they would!

Critcism of May, Farron, Sturgeon is constructive critcism

Criticism of St Jeremy is hate and bile

The rich and the old MaizieD that wouldn't be enough to get them into power.

The hate and bile on these threads become more palpable by the day. I feel ashamed to be associated with some of my own generation. Thank god for young people, or the ones I know anyway.

Probably just the ones you know nightowl because what a lot of them put on Mumsnet and facebook etc make GN look like a church picnic.

Lord Calise has critcised Corbyns speech , claims it is an insult to the people of Manchester . Farron has also spoken out against the speech. Calise said he was fighting the battle of Argincourt

No hate and bile, just sickened he has used the murders to win votes, he couldn't even wait untill the victims have been buried