Group responsibility?

"Seeing all Muslims as one group is bad, being made aware that they are NOT all one group is good."
I agree 100% Elegran.
I've written before about eldest son and family living in Kuwait - got a video today about DGD as part of the school swimming team - all races, including Muslims. They even did a school production of Grease.
I heard an interesting comment from someone on LBC, that when people live in their natural country they tend to be moderate. If they emigrate (for whatever reason) they tend to be more extreme to protect their identity. You can even see that with many of we British living in France.
What that implies for attitudes to immigration I leave to others to guess.

In response to the post just before mine, I think you are right, pogs. Muslim leaders do need to speak out and condemn more than they do. It is often said that some of the radicalisation of the people who become terrorists happens in mosques in this country. Respected and respectful Muslims need to do more to stop that from happening. Is it unreasonable to suppose that it is other Muslims who are in the best positions to prevent terrorist radicalisation among their fellow mosque attenders?

I also think that having exclusionary faith schools is a bad idea. Religious freedom is essential but children should be learning the same overall universal ethics together whatever their parents' religion or lack of it.

Well! I have just read this fascinating article by Kenan Malik in which he has convinced me that my arguments up thread are rubbish.

Here's a tiny sample:
"Radical Islam, and a hatred of West, is not necessarily what draws individuals into jihadism. It is what comes to define and justify that jihadism."

Do have a read. It really is good.

Yes, very good!

Yes, I have read it. It actually says something I had thought in the back of my mind but not known how to express.

The Pope is head of the world wide RC Church, naturally more will listen to him than an Imam from Birmingham, or Manchester or Cardiff or any of the Mosque's in UK

It is about the ' potency ' of the Leaders not necessarily the numbers involved.

The Leaders and Imam's are not as you appear to believe not listened to or have clout in their communities, or indeed the wider Muslim community. They are very influential but I think you do know that really.

I have mentioned the fact that a high number of terror perpertrators are loners/converts/mentally unwell. I have read similar b4. May even have been same person.

Oops! Posted b4 final dentence:similar mindset to the perpertrators of other mass killings e.g. columbine etc.

Fascinating article - thank you for posting that.

POGS, i compared people listening to the head of the RC Church and an Imam apologising to the world , I think the Pope has more clout than an Imam from Cardiff

Anniebach

Of course he has!

I thought you were comparing them as having the same influence POGS

Here is an article saying that the jihadist mentality is part of Islam Many Islams exist—this death cult is one of them. Interesting to read after Kenan Malik's.

As usual I see both points of view and that Truth can be very muddy and unclear. Perhaps there is no absolute truth on complex issues.

I've just watched a BBC clip of a young Muslim woman arguing that, for the time being, all Saudi-financed mosques should be shut down. Brave woman accepting that there are problems within Islam that are dangerous to the world. If that isn't taking responsibility I don't know what is.

Nobody forces Muslims to speak out saying 'Not in our name' or 'you ain't no Muslim bro' - it is an instinctive reaction from those who see these actions being carried out in their name.

To compare with Ireland during The Troubles - well it might have been better had people spoken out but many were too afraid and communities were very much part of the problem themseives with their various 'loyalties'.

Rather that agree with the OP I applaud the voices of Islam that speak out.

Penstemmon. I think we all tend to use phrases like The Jews, The Muslims,The Christians. etc if we were to replace the word 'The 'with the word 'Some ' it would automatically take away the assumption that all Muslim,Jews. Christian's etc are or behave the same.

I agree Anya
Good point norose

Bags - I too saw this same lady - what a brave woman! And also a man from Gloucester who traveled to Manchester with his wife to say not in my name - the poor man was in tears, but so moving in his speech.

I applaud both from the bottom of my heart - it takes courage to speak out as they have done in these dangerous times. Their words broadcast on the media will do more than any government led scheme for inter-community understanding. I hope that they realise how admired they are.

I find it distressing to hear anyone feeling they have to apologise for the actions of others. We know there are so many of the Muslim Faith who are good people yet we are joyful to see them cry, apologise etc when they have done no wrong.

bags re Saudi mosques financed mosques being shut down. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.

"There are many Islams in this world. This death cult is one of them."

“To dismiss them as psychopaths is to ignore what is most truly terrifying about them — that their thuggery and greed coexist with a profound strain of religiosity. [Isis] propagandists present it as charged by God with restoring to the world the pristine Islam that existed back in the days of Muhammad and his immediate successors.”

Very interesting article bags, and flies in the face of Kenan Malik's which emphasises the personal and individual nature of terrorists based on their psychology. Who knows where the truth lies?

Oh annie - why would anyone be "joyful" that these folk are so distressed at the actions of their co-religionists that they feel the need to stand up and apologies for them? Where did you get the word joyful from? No-one is joyful.
It is good that they have had the courage to do this and I admire and applaud them and believe that their actions are both brave and necessary. It does not make me, or them or anyone else joyful" - why would it? - would that the world were a better place and this did not need to happen.

You cannot put words into people's mouths or sentiments into their hearts that they do not have - that is no basis for a disagreement of views.

I am happy to have an exchange of views with you annie, but cannot accept this sort of distortion.

Luckygirl, you want those of Muslim Faith to march, condemn, weep etc, I do not. We will not agree on this. Surely we know the majority are as distressed as those of all faiths and no faith, yet you seem to want thrm in sack cloth and ashes , sorry but this is my opinion.