London Fire -2

I would be more concerned about a government which appears to have laid down a very limited remit for the inquiry. This man can be got rid of and someone else suggested, but if the scope of the inquiry remains the same, there is still a problem.

Whilst it is important that the report is obtained as quickly as possible in order to identify the immediate causes of the fire, it is still very important to look at structural causes - building regs, the response of the authorities to safety concerns, health and safety, equipment available to emergency services, specific responsibilities of various agencies and duty to keep each other informed, etc. - as well as to identify bad practice arising from lack of knowledge re the relationship between materials used and safe construction methods, and possible wilful disregard of safety issues in order to save time or money, etc.

On the "sideline" issue of colour. The examples given of red, yellow, pink, brown and white are not comparable to common use of the word black in negative contexts. The colours mentioned above are not used negatively in many different contexts, and are often just descriptions arising from the actual colour - brown sauce is brown, "reds" the colour of [workers']blood/colour of the Soviet flag, etc.

Surely the government should be coming out and explaining that this is a preliminary enquiry to ensure that nothing the same happens elsewhere. I do appreciate that they are distinctly resembling headless chickens at the moment and show no signs of political honesty but they really do need to get a grip.

Once they have ensured this first enquiry has fulfilled the narrow bounderies it has been given we will probably be in a better place to do a more indepth and historical one which takes account of the evidence of the residents.

penstemmon
I can't speak for Annie, but to my mind it's irrelevant that 80% of people living in GT were Muslim.
Although I do understand what she's saying.

Annibach I do not understand what you mean in your comment to Jen

No one has accused the police of lying Annie it is all in your mind. The question is why, after the long and drawn out campaign of Hillsborough, the authorities are still unwilling or unable to establish something which would have the full support of all the victims and their relatives?

Jen, can it be no one except you think the Muslim card should be played

So already police are being accused of lying as they did at
Hillsborough ?

no, nothing to say about there being 80% Muslims in the tower, except that anyone making mischief out of that fact would be welcomed with open arms at ISIS.

Has anyone who still expects to know immediately how many bodies were found, and who they were, ever read anything at all about the difficulties of isolating and identifying the victims of an inferno or from a a mass grave? The work has to be carried out with archeological precision and samples analysed in a laboratory.

The Justice for Hillsborough Group have offered support to Justice 4 Grenfell.
justice4grenfell.org
I can't help thinking that no lessons have been learned by the establishment.

Eloethan's examples are all of things which have connotations of going on in darkness, hidden from the light of open scrutiny, or of gloomy moodiness - literally so and have been for centuries, nothing whatsoever to do with applying them to skin colour, and anyone who takes it to themselves as an insult is working pretty hard at being a martyr, whatever their previous experience of discrimination.

In fact, most people who are not "white" are not actually "black" at all, but some subtle shade mixed from reds, yellows, browns, pinks, and even other colours.

Is it also insulting some race or other to use yellow as an adjective for a coward, pink for the noise of a faulty car engine, brown sauce for a condiment made chiefly of tooth-shrivelling vinegar and eye-watering spices, reds under the bed for fifth-columnist sleepers, white nights for hours of agonising sleeplessness, beige for boring?

How about the patriotic ladies who gave white feathers to "cowardly" men who were not in uniform? Was it an insult to the "white" forces who WERE in uniform?

Particularly when they were told they would have some input into the scope of the enquiry, trisher.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/03/britain-power-contempt-grenfell-labour-haringey-social-housing

This is why the Grenfell residents do not trust the judge.

To go back to the original question I would be seriously concerned about someone who was already informing the victims that the scope of his inquiry might not address their concerns. The obvious question is "Then why bother?" David Lammy isn't the only person raising this. A campaign group Justice 4 Grenfell are also threatening to boycott it. Shades of Hillsborough?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/02/i-stood-there-i-felt-helpless-relatives-recall-grenfell-tower-as-they-lay-loved-ones-to-rest

I mentioned it yesterday, Annie. Nobody appears to be interested in the fact that 80% of those living in and ignored in Grenfell Tower were thought to be Muslim.

Gagged? How dramatic. The police will release the numbers when the numbers are known

Not faith as well as colour please

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/heroic-grenfell-tower-firefighters-gagged-10722903

Does anyone have anything to say about the fact that 80% of those in Grenfell Tower were Muslim?

How sensitive of Lewis Carroll to have matched the White chess pieces against the Red ones in Through the Looking Glass.

I urge you all to watch this wonderful youtube video: The Day Beyoncé Turned Black

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ociMBfkDG1w

or blue to feeling sad
it sounds good in a song?

I'm feeling blue oo oo ...

I think these terms were used way before anyone ever encountered 'people of colour' as Diane Abbott says.

www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2009/12/the-light-and-dark-of-language.html

So how they can be thought of as being derogatory about black people is something that is new and contrived.

Possibly Lammy experienced racial abuse when young and that is sad but he should not let it explode now

We use colour to express feelings not race, black is dreary, yellow is sunny, no idea why green is linked to envy or blue to feeling sad

PS Eloethan I hope I haven't given the impression that any of this has "angered" me. Mildly amused and entertained by David Lammy's apparent ignorance and heightened sensitivities, no more.