How much will a flight cost after Brexit?

Elegran

No defending some things!!

Anyway, she was a very nice woman. (Mrs C)

I doubt very much if someone who studied Computer Science almost 50 years ago knows much about IT today. There's a world of difference.

But do you really believe DD hasn't kept up with IT and can't even operate an iPad?

Elegran as ever, you state things I never said - I've never made a comment on JRM's mother's wealth. I have no idea about how wealthy, very wealthy or whatever either of them were.

Put it this way Ana, he was strikes me as someone who always gets someone else to do something for him so he can get on with the task in hand. It's the only way to keep on top of everything at his level. Also, as a senior minister his social media accounts are probably managed by his team (good idea for most politicians ). If he can use an iPad it'll be so he can play on it with his GC.

Actually seriously, I think he might be able to surf the web and send emails - and play games!

Rigby It was Rees-Mogg's mother-in-law who apparently was (is?) very wealthy. I didn't state that you had said that.

Why do you state that I stated things I didn't state?

(Who's that up there?
Who's that down there saying who's that up there?
Who's that up there saying who's that down there saying who's that up there?
Who's that down there saying who's that up there saying who's that down there saying who's that up there?)

It must be time to stop for the night.

wilma are you hacking his kit with your wicked java skills to know this?

There is no reason to suppose that someone who studied computer science to degree level 50 years knows nothing about using an iPad today.
I cannot understand the logic of that at all.

Define wealth and privilege - is that an order?

Well, it's rather late to think about definitions, but I could give an example or two:

The upbringing of Jeremy Corbyn, Seamus Milne, Harriet Harman, David Cameron, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Nick Clegg to name a few.

But that is by my standards, as I said earlier, some Gransnetters may consider the early lives of those named abve to be normal by their own standards.

Primrose sssshhhh!

Jalima the logic is he did not pursue a career in IT and what he did 50 years ago will not be an advantage to him learning how to use an iPad. I'm not saying he can't use an iPad (I never said that).

I too find it intriguing Jalima. Nature and nurture and all that. I had Mr Corbyn down as being an academic. It's the jacket I think and the way he dresses. I also had Mr Davis as a rather wishy washy nice man, but he obviously has a very analytical mind. At my age I really should stop judging by appearances.

Interesting degrees of snobbery being exhibited in this conversation!

Snobbery - how?

it is just intriguing to ponder the reasons people end up as they do.

NfkDumpling I saw an interview with Corbyn a few months ago - think it was on the One Show before the election. He said he wasn't very academic at school. After he left he did a couple of years with the VSO in the Caribbean.

Oh dear it was me said he probably couldn't turn on an iPad. His degree was a combined one in molecular science and computer science (interesting). I do think socialist principles are often found in people from 'privileged' backgrounds, just as working class people can be traditional and Conservatives. I must confess I find the latter harder to understand. It seems to me that being brought up in a time when the welfare state was established and benefiting from that policy should leave someone with a sense of obligation to provide similar support to succeeding generations, DD says he lived on a sink council estate in Tooting, nowadays he and his mum would be in a B&B or on the streets.

This is what I find intriguing.

Are the streets of Tooting filled with homeless mums and babies then ? I must confess I don't know Tooting at all.

Anyway - 50 or so years ago computers filled a room! You had to go through a double door system to keep out any dust.

It's up and coming London now. Interesting article about it
www.theguardian.com/money/2014/apr/04/lets-move-to-tooting-south-london

Wouldn't think there'll be much council housing left.

I think the estate he grew up on is still there. I always think of 'Citizen Smith' whenever I hear Tooting.

Trisher It seems to me that being brought up in a time when the welfare state was established and benefiting from that policy should leave someone with a sense of obligation to provide similar support to succeeding generations.

It could just be that those from poor backgrounds (like me) who have known hardship fear the anti-establishment policies of the left, looming even larger these days with the Communist threat.

Stability is important to those with little. They have to hold on to what they have and the prospect of 'revolution' holds no joy for them. It is to be feared. Smashing the status quo, the ambition of the loud hard left who guide Momentum etc, isn't for ordinary Labour voters or indeed most ordinary folk.

The reforming Labour party of the 40s was a wonderful thing.

Sadly however the party evolved and not in a way the working class, those with little, but aspirations for their families, can embrace. The left sometimes forget that all political parties act and work in the present, the time in which they are in power. They forget that it was the Labour Party which introduced student tuition fees, and privatisation of some hospital services. Both were measures taken to aid the economy or to streamline business and make it more cost-effective. Oh they are damned now, but we move forwards, not backwards and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Now Labour are recruiting the young, those who want the revolution, those who see all Tories as selfish rich land-owners or business people, which is a myth. The Tory party have a duty to the working class as well, just as the Labour Party has a duty to the middle class. To destroy their lifestyles or to make people poorer so they can upset the status quo and establishment is to me, quite an evil and selfish undertaking which will have consequences for all people, rich and poor. The taxpayer keeps the country afloat.

Stability and security is what poorer people crave. Labour scare them with the idea the NHS is going to be abolished. Most of us appreciate to demolish the NHS is a political move which won't happen, although I am sure it will be streamlined, no matter which party holds the purse strings.

Labour has just admitted that student loans won't be repaid. That it is just an 'ambition'. It as an ambition which appealed to millions of young people who voted for Corbyn and co, but who perhaps now feel duped and disappointed. The figures don't add up. Those same students will grow and learn that a stable economy is central to all a government does. The poor don't want instability, or a revolution. They can be whipped into a frenzy of thinking they might, not realising many educated middle classes who have nothing to lose, who have security, are fanning those flames.

They want their needs considered.

As for the streets for young people in hardship? Why do socialists always use worst case scenarios as if they are the norm?

Friends of son, both unemployed, discovered a baby was on the way a year ago. Her council flat was too small. Baby has been born, and they now have a two bedroomed house on a private estate, with a garden and their benefits are intact. They have been looked after. They system does work. In parts it is broken, but 'the streets' are not the norm for most in hardship either! These two are right-on Labour supporters who have been sorted out by erm, a Tory government.

I appreciate there are tales of horror out there too, and not everyone gets that happy conclusion to problems, but we forget about a system which for most people does work.

Labour use this smokescreen to bash what they consider to be an uncaring opposition.

Sadly, most keyboard warriors also tend to be left wing. Twitter and Facebook are almost wholly given over to Tory bashing.

I believe no one should be on the streets, but we DO have a welfare system, one which we should treasure. It works too, despite what hard left Labour supporters would have us believe. Do not forget, Labour too have tinkered with it when in power. I was a victim of Blair's cull on Incapacity Benefit dependants and was more or less left to sink or swim when I was at my lowest ebb, physically and financially.

I am working class, but feel much safer with Tories at the helm, sad to say. My Labour voting father, a strong Union man would be turning in his grave at the demise of the party, at the infiltration of the anti-establishment hard left.

Well Day6 as someone from a very working class background and whose GF was a docker and a communist I can tell you there were many who considered the 48 welfare state did not go far enough and things would not change. If the welfare state is working why are people denied disability benefits and dying? Why are there families in B&B accommodation? Why are there nurses using food banks. For every one instance of a family decently housed I can find you 10 of people who simply can't afford housing where they work.
Labour have said the student loan system is broken, something many of us knew long ago, so Conservative or Labour the government will have to find a way to deal with it. The Conservatives wanted to sell it off and make money from it. It was a big mistake because it is toxic and nobody wants it. At least Labour are being honest about the problem
I don't see all Tory's as rich landowners I do see them as a party dedicated to cutting down state support and having a low tax economy. It will harm the less fortunate but Hey who cares about them?
The NHS won't be abolished it will be gradually run down and services will be cherry picked and privatised so that only certain services are available to the poorest and sorry that isn't the NHS I want.
There aren't any communists now, the policies being proposed are mild compared with what my GF wanted. You have been duped by a right wing media campaign.

Primrose65 maybe that is why DD became Conservative, he didn't want to join the Tooting Popular Front

Day6 What a thoughtful, measured and eloquent post. Thank you for sharing your views.

Most keyboard warriors are left wing? Complete and utter tosh. It's right ( and left) across the board - you clearly are following a very narrow range of people on twitter and Facebook Day6

Hey Rigby46 I was basking in being called a "keyboard warrior", gave me a whole new self image. Sitting here with my helmet and breast plate, flourishing my spear, don't ruin it for me

My views at the moment on social media are much coloured by the right wing bile and utter stupidity being spewed out by people in relation to the Gard case. I have never read such complete rubbish ever. The Americans of course are easily the worst as they are too stupid to realise how stupid they are and they are very very stupid indeed.

Wow.
I think you need a cup of tea Rigby and a lie down somewhere quiet.

My goodness Rigby you must terrify people when you open your mouth in company, ' how to silence a room with one statement'.