What should be done about Public Sector pay?

"An EU nurse has said Britain is making him and others feel unwelcome, after a 96% drop in the number of EU nurses coming to work in the UK since the Brexit vote.

Latest figures released show there has been a dramatic drop from a high of 1,304 in July last year to 344 two months later in September.

Numbers have continued to fall, with just 46 nurses from EU countries registering in April this year, leading to fears that lives will be put at “serious risk”.

EU citizens make up 6.9% of the overall nursing staff in the UK, with 22,081 working in the NHS as of December 2016."

So you're happy that hospitals in other EU countries have even fewer nurses than us as long as we're alright?

But they are not!!!!!
EU nurses are going back to the EU, and they are no longer wanting to work here.

My mother was a nurse. We had nurses living with us from the 1950s, as well as doctors. They came from Nigeria, Jamaica, Germany, Holland, even one from Poland, and lots of other countries over the years. They trained here, and many of them went back home, to work in their own countries.
You appear to be very parochial, if you do not mind me using that word.

ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Healthcare_personnel_statistics_-_nursing_and_caring_professionals#Main_statistical_findings

I do remember the furore years ago when the NHS was accused of poaching medical staff from countries which desperately needed them to stay, mainly African countries I think.

No, we don't need more and more nurses from the EU - we need to train more of our own without forcing them to pay to do degrees.

And, if nurses want to come here from English-speaking Commonwealth countries we need to end the absurdity of making them taking an English language test at their own expense and making them taking a Master's degree at their own expense before they can do the jobs that they were deemed qualified to do in their own First World countries where health care is equal to or better than our own.

take not taking

Why do posts have to become personal?

Like I said, Jalima, in the fifties lots of commonwealth people came here to train, then went back home. Not all of them, and perhaps it was the wrong way round, but at least they were taught about hygiene in hygienic conditions.

Am I not supposed to say about the fact that my mother was a nurse and we had nurses living with us?
Is that too personal?
It's what happened. It's my experience.

I think it was in the 2000s there was quite an outcry about it; we were accused of stripping these nations of their qualified medical staff.

We are certainly not doing it now!
46 nurses applied for registration from EU countries in April, and it's reduced since then.

www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/views-from-the-nhs-frontline/2017/jul/24/general-practice-nhs-recruitment-crisis

Exactly Jalima it has not stopped, it's just not in the press at the moment. I mention anything on any political post and the attacks start. It's pathetic.

"we need to train more of our own [nurses] without forcing them to pay to do degrees."

Excellent point, Jalima. It's only in recent years that all nurses have been required to do a degree.
Degree level training isn't needed for most nursing roles.

Nobody wants to apply, though, FarNorth. Nurses are leaving to work in supermarkets or go abroad.
We need them now.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/08/nhs-staff-quitting-to-work-in-supermarkets-because-of-poor-pay

They'll be demoralised far faster, stacking shelves in Aldi for minimum wage. It's the same across most EU countries, it's not a UK problem, it's a global one really.

I can see their point. Stacking shelves or working on checkouts is relatively stress-free compared to looking after ill people and that could give them a breathing space while they decide what to do next.

I still think that making degrees a requirement for all nurses was a mistake.

You didn't look at the statistics I put on, did you?

ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/2/28/Practising_nurses_and_caring_professionals%2C_2014.png

Lots of EU countries have more nurses than we do.

You possibly chose the wrong example there, Primrose.
Aldi is number 2 in the Times top graduate employers.

I agree about the degree, FarNorth. My mother was an SEN, as opposed to an SRN.
All her training was on the ward.

I have done my stint of shelf stacking and I can assure you it is not as glamorous as it sounds, particularly if you get put on the pet food aisle.

dj They still pay minimum wage for stacking shelves though, even if you have a PhD. Their graduate scheme is different. You didn't read the article you posted!
NHS staff are quitting to stack shelves in supermarkets

I read everything I post.
Industry leading wages does not mean minimum wage.
Aldi pays higher than the real living wage according to the Living Wage Foundation.

"Aldi is to give more than 3,000 employees a pay rise, overtaking Lidl to become the UK’s highest-paying supermarket.

From next month, Aldi staff will earn £8.53 per hour, raised to £9.75 per hour for those who live in London.

This is higher than the Government’s national living wage rate of £7.20 an hour. It even surpasses the Living Wage Foundation’s voluntary rate of £8.25 per hour."

dj fair enough.
They'll be demoralised far faster, stacking shelves in Aldi for £8.53 an hour or £9.75 an hour if they live in London. Unless they're at other supermarkets who pay less.

It's a sensationalist article - that was the point I was making. I'll spell it out next time.

And if being uncomfortable with hiring nurses from low wage economies in the EU where they have fewer nurses per 1,000 people means I'm parochial in your eyes, that's fine too.

I have done my stint of shelf stacking and I can assure you it is not as glamorous as it sounds, particularly if you get put on the pet food aisle

Or soap powder Jalima It half killed me it was so heavy and no lifting equipment either . I was doing it on an evening after doing a full days work and it was horrible. Oh the sneezing was awful too.

Does anyone think shelf stacking sounds glamorous??

primrose I've searched but I can't find any reference to dire shortages of nurses in low wage EU economies. There are, however, at least a dozen sites reporting the dangerous, and growing, shortage of nurses in the UK.