I Will Deal With It

Well done Primrose what was left out was important.

I'm as happy as anyone to hold politicians and journalists to account, but I really object to all the fake news out there. We need good quality, investigative journalism to make sure those in power are always aware that their actions are held to account. (Bit biased, nephew is in the business)

Come on then, show us what you have missed out, primrose.
All of it, as that's what roses says was important.

What you missed out durhamj !

Primrose put the article in context.

Well the news about law students isn't 'news' Primrose65 there has always been a discrepancy between those with a law degree and those being taken on as articled solicitors and legal training, for the simple reason that the law tends to prefer graduates from other disciplines with good degrees such as firsts in English from Oxbridge. The law students do use their training in other areas such as the civil service, citizens advice, debt management, and other useful services. Of course these aren't as well paid as the law but just as valuable.
(Son is in media as well but I really don't see what our relatives have to do with anything)

Read what primrose said, roses.
She said she would be happy to cut and paste.

I did say I couldn't read the whole article.
I would be very grateful if she would give us the whole article so we can judge for ourselves.

but I really don't see what our relatives have to do with anything
trisher
Does that apply to all posters or just the ones that disagree with you.

The Left will continue its resurgence so long as too many go to university

Tom Welsh

29 July 2017 • 5:37pm

The young have just had their first brush with the brutal cynicism of politics. Those of us fearful that a Labour government will lead inexorably to Venezuela-style ruin will have welcomed the downgrading of the party’s £100 billion pledge to wipe out student debt to a mere aspiration. But it will have come as a cold shower to the countless others who were led to believe that Jeremy Corbyn plays by different rules to other politicians.

Or will it? The contention is that once young people realise that the bribes will never materialise, they will vote for a party honest about the disastrous long-term state of the public finances. But it is far more likely is that they’ll continue their march Left, unless we address a problem that anyone who believes in aspiration will be squeamish about tackling: too many go to university.

This is what I can read before the paywall. Exactly as written.
Not pleasant reading, is it, and it says just what I quoted earlier. I don't need to read any more to know exactly what the rightwingers think about university education for everyone.

petra if I could see the point of mentioning a relative I wouldn't care who did it, but in this case I can't see the point. Nothing to do with disagreeing with anyone. If you can explain the connection I would be really pleased.

Democratic Socialism seems o be doing OK in many Scandanavian countries....

The young have just had their first brush with the brutal cynicism of politics. Those of us fearful that a Labour government will lead inexorably to Venezuela-style ruin will have welcomed the downgrading of the party’s £100 billion pledge to wipe out student debt to a mere aspiration. But it will have come as a cold shower to the countless others who were led to believe that Jeremy Corbyn plays by different rules to other politicians.
Or will it? The contention is that once young people realise that the bribes will never materialise, they will vote for a party honest about the disastrous long-term state of the public finances. But it is far more likely is that they’ll continue their march Left, unless we address a problem that anyone who believes in aspiration will be squeamish about tackling: too many go to university.
Tony Blair’s target of getting 50 per cent into university was a pernicious exercise in social engineering. A graduate degree does not necessarily lead to a graduate job. There is a chasm, for example, between the number achieving legal degrees and those receiving training contracts. Where do they end up? Presumably in careers far less lucrative than the law.
This is not true everywhere: there is huge demand for engineers and scientists, and evidence that higher tuition fees have incentivised students to take courses more likely to result in better pay. But given that universities face no real downside to churning out enormous numbers of unemployable humanities graduates, we’re rapidly creating an educated, bitter underclass with ever more devalued degrees – the number of Firsts awarded has soared eight percentage points in the last five years. With the earnings premium from a degree declining too, this isn’t about debt but prospects.
Institutions once at the vanguard of liberal thought have also succumbed to a kind of intellectual Stalinism, influencing the politics of professors and students. Just 7 per cent of academics voted Tory in the last election, with more than 80 per cent backing Left-wing parties. Vast quantities of research is produced, much of it never cited again, and yet the number of Tory‑supporting academic historians, for example, is vanishingly small.
In this stultifying culture of uniformity, different views are discouraged through “safe spaces” and “no platforming”. Even free market capitalists aren’t safe. A talk at Exeter University last year by Yaron Brook of the Ayn Rand Institute was disrupted by student activists.
The solution lies partly in creating a proper market in education, which to the Government’s credit is beginning to happen. When students can more easily identify which courses are worth pursuing and where, they are less likely to be so dispirited by their prospects that they become easy prey for the far-Left. But we also need far greater diversity of provision. There are currently only a tiny number of fully private higher education institutions in Britain. Unless we have more to compete with the Left-dominated incumbents, universities will continue to be factories for Corbynites.

Here's the link to the synopsis durhamjen posted

skwawkbox.org/2017/07/31/tory-press-finally-admits-we-want-you-uneducated-so-youll-vote-tory/

Being unintelligent and uneducated helps you vote Conservative.

I'm not saying the Telegraph printed a great article.
I'm not saying I agree with anything written.

I'm simply saying the blog post does not reflect the article.

If I could see the point of mentioning a relative I wouldn't care who did it, but in this case I can't see the point.

Just start a "Why did you do that Primrose?' thread trisher

I must admit I would like to see the whole article to make up my mind but you would probably be breaking copy write if you did that Primrose so a bit unfair to GN.

Sharing one article per week is absolutely fine GracesGran as everyone can have access to 1 free paywall article a week. Providing it doesn't break the T&Cs of the paywall, there's no infringement.

I think she has done, GracesGran.
The full one is worse than the skwawkbox. Steve Walker was being kind.

The Telegraph doesn't want so many people being educated to degree standard as it just produces a load of disgruntled Corbynites, ready for a Stalinist revolution.

You're right it is worse Jen. Thanks for pointing it out. I missed it completely.

Goodness me, those dreadful educated people not voting Tory!

It is a weird pice of writing with so many inconsistencies and inaccuracies it isn't worth considering. As I've already said the 'chasm' in law degrees and training for a legal career has existed for at least 20 and probably 40 years. It's not just to do with law degrees per se but also the willingness of graduates to move as the area in which they graduate can only support a certain number.
As for the assertion that academics are mainly left wing and you can't have a right wing historian, it was brilliantly satirised in the History Boys by Alan Bennett years ago and the idea was that actually you can say anything and the more controversial the better.
A degree in any discipline produces someone who is more able to adapt and train to any career, not necessarily in their degree subject..
I didn't ask you anything Primrose65 I was addressing petra's question. You see some people have manners and respond reasonably to requests.

Huge demand for engineers, as well. Tell that to my son who hasn't had a job as an engineer since he got his degree.

Steve Walker thought it was worth considering and durhamjen thought his considerations were worth posting trisher. I disagree with both of them but I wouldn't dismiss it so callously.

You appear to be ignoring my response to the whole article though, primrose.
So you agree with that, do you?

Your friend Gove thinks that skwawkbox is responsible news.

Here's an interesting story from it.

skwawkbox.org/2017/07/31/excl-fake-polling-station-confirmed-in-bristol-but-no-charges-brought/

I wonder what people think of it. I would like to know what happened there, and if any votes were cast there, and what happened to them.

I would ask what you agree with and what you don't Primrose65 but as I suppose it is the stuff about the far left recruiting disillusioned graduates, and you never like me asking anything so I won't bother. I wonder though does the writer really think that clever people will not become left wing without a university education? Because history indicates that isn't so. The Labour Party and the communist party had at their core a group of people who left school at 14 but educated themselves through the WEA and wanted education for their children and grandchildren.

My view hasn't changed at all trisher. The blog post does not reflect the article correctly. That was my point - read my post from Mon 31-Jul-17 21:28:00.
You've all rushed off and written a critique of an article for some reason. I have no idea why.

David Starkey is a right wing historian