I love Sarah Champion!

Trevor Phillips wants ' race hate crime ' added to the crime of sexual grooming and rape in these cases.

trisher, in previous discussions on this many have spoken of the lack of care for the girls , I certaintly have.

This thread is about Sarah Champion and her views on the left failing to to confront the truth

How can you say this has "nothing to do with Corbyn" trisher? Of course it has and is to do with his lack of moral courage to support and fight for an MP that he and the Labour party should be proud of.

Our focus should be on the victims and the appalling way they were treated by their abusers and those who were in a position to do something about it. Instead the focus has been shifted to a large extent onto a woman whose forthright condemnation has put the leader of her own party to shame.

everything to do with girls who behave in ways that many find unacceptable

When you start blaming the victims, you've lost the argument.

Girls behaving in ways that many find unacceptable does not justify raping them. Anyway, what evidence is there that they were behaving in such ways? Just being a 'Western' female is apparently unacceptable to some.

I think Sarah Champion was extremely unwise to give this interview in the Sun. It pandered to the sort of attitudes that the Sun peddles, and gave encouragement to groups such as EDL, as illustrated by the tweet that duremjen posted.
She would have done better to say that we have a problem with social workers not treating teenage girls as the children that they are and instead branding them as the problem. Yes, our focus should be on the girls and the way they were treated, they should not be used as ammunition against people who hold left wing views. This had nothing to do with cowardice on the part of politictions and everything to do with the spectacular mistakes by the very people that should have been protecting the girls.

Did I just read that right? She would have done better to say that we have a problem with social workers not treating teenage girls as the children that they are and instead branding them as the problem

It wasn't the victims fault. It wasn't the social workers fault. It wasn't the police's fault. It wasn't the politicians fault.

It was the fault of the men who raped and sexually abused the victims, across 8 cities in the UK, for year, after year, after year.

Had they had more respect for the vulnerable teenage girls, and treated them with the same respect that they would have liked their own daughters, nieces and sisters to have been treated, there would have been no margin for social workers to have missed clues. The police wouldn't have needed to have been involved. Politicians wouldn't need to be making statements to national newspapers that get twisted.

The fault lies with the men. End of.

Austerity has absolutely nothing to do with any man's attitude to woman. That attitude is entirely the responsibility of the men concerned, no matter who they are or where they come from.

I would never have believed that women on a forum like this, would actually write the utter crap they have done about blaming social workers etc instead of the men who committed these awful offences against young girls.How could you?!
Is this what being a Socialist is all about?Thank God I am not one then.
Because all the excuses have come from very left wing sources.
Champion is a Labour MP, but even that isn't enough, because she doesn't worship Corbyn she is deemed to be not worthy.Pah!

From Nazir Afzal ( Rochdale prosecutor)
It's not just the crime itself that people aren't reporting. Communities where child abuse is rife are remaining silent about the prehistoric attitudes fuelling this crime
Where racism was accepted as the norm in the 70s Britain, there are parts of our country now where violent misogyny is equally acceptable and even celebrated
What worries me is that these largely Asian areas with little appetite in the community to do anything about it.

I fully expect 'some' posters to tell us that Nazir Afzal doesn't know what he's talking about.

It is interesting that some think that things will be sorted out if they just insist the problem is Pakistani men and nothing else. It is of course just a way of deflecting attention and not accepting responsibility. The girls were abused and raped but it should have been possible for them to go to someone and report the abuse and for the law to be enforced and the perpetrators prosecuted. Instead they were consistently let down by all the institutions involved, sending a message to the men who do such things that it was something we would not deal with and reinforcing their belief that these girls were worthless.
Let's say it was some other crime say burglary, one group of men, say young white males, do a series of burglaries and are not prosecuted, isn't it likely that others will do the same? And that if the police and other bodies know about the burglaries, and don't believe the victims, that the burglaries will go on?
As for austerity not being a factor, well who do you suppose is looking after girls who are excluded or truanting from school, who are drinking and taking drugs and being groomed and exploited now? It won't be someone like the sex worker who kept records because there aren't any left. What disappoints about Sarah Champion is that she has chosen such an easy target and hasn't demanded that proper services be put in place and that these be properly accountable to improve things for all children.

lemongrove what do you attribute the lengthy period of abuse, the spread of the abuse and the failure to prosecute to? No one is saying these men were not guilty or that they need to be forgiven or that their offences were not horrendous. What we are asking is why did it take so long to prosecute these crimes? Why weren't the girls believed? Did this failure to provide support enable the abusers? Is the whole sad episode likely to be repeated in the future and what can we do to prevent this?
And writing articles in the Sun is sadly unlikely to answer any of these questions.

You're mulishly missing the point trisher. The vast majority of these rapists and child molesters, were of Asian heritage. It was their disregard, lack of respect and disdain for young white girls that caused the problem, not the girls who were drinking alcohol or taking drugs. Yes, those girls were vulnerable to predators but it's the fact that it was predominantly Asian men who homed in on them and abused them. What needs tackling here, first and foremost, is the attitude of Asian men towards white girls. Once they have as much respect for young white girls as they have for their own sisters, daughters and nieces; social workers, police forces and politicians won't need to address this disgusting and shameful behaviour again.

Odd that the Labour Party have never had a female leader.
I fully expect someone to bring up Harriet Harperson but that doesn't really count, but the Tories are now on their 2nd.
I'm sure that must hurt some of the sisterhood, good.
Did anyone read what Jess Phillips (MP) had to say about the left wing Neanderthals sexist attitude when talking at the Edinburgh Book Festival, it wasn't nice

chewbacca
I would suggest that the type of Asian 'man' who commits these crimes have no respect for their own wives/daughters/nieces. I would suggest that a lot of these 'men' don't even like women.
Honour killings?

So do you believe that if the abusers had been white Chewbacca there would have been quicker action taken? I don't. Even if the attitudes of Asian men need to change (and arguably the attitudes of many men towards women need to change) how will writing in the Sun help with that? Possibly it will have quite the opposite effect creating real division between communities. The abuse was perpetrated by Asian men the failure to prosecute the crimes was entirely the fault of the white establishment.
petra perhaps that's because Labour women would not allow them selves to be manipulated and groomed by the leading men in the party but insist on speaking their mind and being treated as equals.

I believe that legal proceedings would have been quicker if the rapist's had been white trisher. The reason I believe this is because both the police and social workers have admitted that their investigations were hampered by the fact that they were anxious not to be seen as racists. The very fact that 1 social worker, who tried to alert senior management of the high numbers of reports of abuse, was actually sent to be "retrained in racial awareness". That wouldn't have happened if the rapists had been white.

failure to prosecute the crimes was entirely the fault of the white establishment. Are you absolutely sure that the investigations were conducted only by white British social workers and white British police officers? You seem very keen to offload the responsibility of these crimes onto white British. Why?

Trisher - What disappoints about Sarah Champion is that she has chosen such an easy target and hasn't demanded that proper services be put in place and that these be properly accountable to improve things for all children.

I cannot believe I am reading this.

You are condemning Sarah Champion, who bravely DIDN'T muddy the waters and try to find other scapegoats for the horrendous treatment of these girls.

It follows that the whole affair was mishandled and questions must be answered, but it's also emerged that there are those in the new look Labour Party who will not point the finger at the perpetrators of sexual abuse - because they are Pakistani. I find that very worrying.

The cover ups are a disgrace, yet Sarah Champion is vilified (by her own party) for daring to open the can of worms.

Unbelievable. I am horrified that there are women condemning Sarah Champion.

Trisher you said this yourself. "It is of course just a way of deflecting attention and not accepting responsibility."

This applies to your responses and the Labour party's attitude.

Yes Chewbacca - the word "Asian" was removed from some reports.
Anyone who doubts that this is a problem of the attitude of large numbers of Pakistani men towards women and "white trash" should read Professor Alexis Jay's report (available online) into the systematic rape & exploitation of at least 1,400 children in Rotherham.
Why the Labour Party leadership won't face up to this is astounding. We need more MPs like Sarah Champion.
And you gransnetters who are blaming the victims & anyone other than the rapists - what would you do if it was your granddaughter being approached by Pakistani men? I'd warn mine to keep away - and wouldn't care about being called a racist.

The Labour leadership will not face up to it because he has hopes of winning the next election, votes far more important than honour for this so called honourable man ,

Nothing to do with Corbyn, everything to do with girls who behave in ways that many find unacceptable and who suffer and are vulnerable because of this.

This is one part of what trisher said and has been taken out of context to imply she is somehow 'blaming the victim'.

Trisher you have hit the nail on the head with your posts on how this abuse was allowed to flourish. Yes, the abuse was perpetrated by the men concerned, and no one else can be blamed for that, but it was allowed to go on for so long because professionals - in social services, the police, and others did not acknowledge what was happening and chose to disregard what the girls were saying and to blame them for 'making their own choices'. This kind of organised abuse has been going on all over the country for years and is still going on. I say this as someone who was professionally involved in working with CSE at least 10 years ago when I heard the same excuses made by the police, and by senior managers in my own organisation.

It is vitally important that we look at the motivation and attitudes of the men involved - including their racial origins, religion, cultural beliefs and practices, and any other factors that seem to form part of a pattern. But it is equally important that we look at societal attitudes to women and girls that allow them to be disregarded not only by some sections of the community but by those in positions of authority. It is not enough to say this was due to political correctness, as it was also highlighted in investigations of abuse by those in the Catholic Church, those in children's homes, and celebrities amongst others. I think we have a serious problem of misogyny and sexism that runs deep in our society. Not only misogyny, because boys are also abused and exploited by these gangs, but they too are blamed and regarded as complicit in their own abuse. I think we don't value children very much and particularly 'those who behave in ways many find unacceptable'. It makes me very sad that we have made so little progress in these areas despite our generation's struggles to make a better, more equal society. Unless we are prepared to look at the whole picture nothing will ever change.

Thanks for that nightowl. It's good to know that someone understands
For all you others.
Please read the account the sexual health worker gave of her involvement
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/15/exposed-rochdale-gangs-grooming-three-girls-catalyst-progress
She vividly describes how the girls were unsupported
Her final words say it all
"But the best way to put grooming gangs out of business is to start building resilient, confident communities. We should be ashamed that there are still too many places with poor life chances, lacking in basic community facilities where girls go without dinner at school to save their money to buy a bottle of vodka on a Friday night.

These places have been ignored for too long and this neglect makes them fertile territory for criminals. Better-resourced agencies, properly trained police and stronger laws around child abuse are just the beginning. Only when we start strengthening communities, building people’s confidence and giving marginalised kids a proper future can we finally say we are delivering on child protection."

Fault back with the victims not the abusers

Is that a comment on the person who made these girls' lives more bearable and was their one support Annie? Try reading a bit more and condemning a bit less.

And the best child protection is for men to learn to respect and treat young vulnerable women as they would their own female relatives . And if this is a problem for some particular cultures, own up to it, recognise it; don't try to sweep it under the carpet because it creates difficulties that we'd rather not acknowledge existed. Because trying to air brush out the cultural relevance of these rapists has done more to harm cultural cohesion in the affected communities than if the problem had been tackled head on, right from the beginning.

Police are condemned for not acting, social workers and carers ditto. Corbyn is defended for not acting