I love Sarah Champion!

What on earth has Yorkshire to do with this

Thanks nightowl for your knowledgeable comments. I despair of those who are trying to score political points from this situation. It is a fact that there are vulnerable children on our streets, in care homes and in dysfunctional families who need more care and support, who are targeted by abusers (mostly but not all men) and who lead lives unimaginable to most of us. They aren't easy to deal with, they exhibit challenging behaviour which some on GN would probably be appalled by. And far from blaming the victims as I have been accused of I believe they need to be empowered. The girls in particular are let down by a society that still demands a certain sort of behaviour from females and abandons anyone who steps beyond those boundaries, even when they may do so before they are legally or mentally able to give consent or understand what is happening to them.
If Sarah Champion was campaigning for those children I would have much more respect for her. Instead she chooses to write for the Sun an article which only re-inforces its readers' racial prejudices and does nothing to change things.

And I despair of women who are old enough to know better still turning a blind eye to the fact that many Pakistani heritage men are forming huge gangs to groom and pass around children yes, children ( not political point scoring, simply realising on here that the few who disagree with Sarah Champion are Corbyn supporters.)
Saying things like 'she should keep her head down' in my view that is tantamount to sticking your head in the sand and being just as lily livered as Jeremy Corbyn, when will that man grow a backbone?
However, I am pleased that suchs views are well in the minority.

What has Yorkshire got to do with it?
Read the first line, Annie.
Rotherham is in Yorkshire, you know.

I know. So only Yorkshire born should have an opinion on this ?

Not political point scoring? Of course you are, lemongrove.
What a ridiculous thing to say.
None of us are saying that some Pakistani men do not groom children. We are saying it's more than that, and blaming Pakistani men lets others off the hook by deflecting.

I didn't say that either, Annie. Once again you are twisting words, but that's your speciality.

Yes I am a Corbyn supporter lemongrove - and I have always been very open about it. I am quite capable of forming my own opinions and should be grateful if you don't make assumptions about my motives and character.

My views on this issue have nothing to do with Corbyn and are consistent with views I have expressed on other threads - unlike some people on here who in the past were perfectly comfortable making judgements about the behaviour of young women in relation to the likelihood of them being sexually assaulted.

As my DD would say, yeah, right!

DJ -Not political point scoring? Of course you are, lemongrove.

And you know full well that those people supporting Corbyn on this thread are desperately trying to bury the fact that Sarah Champion highlighted a group of men who abused girls because they are sexist, misogynist, cruel and evil. That group tend to be Labour supporters, so heaven forbid you upset them!!!

We all know Sarah Champion should have said "some" when referring to the abusers, but her REAL crime, from a Corbyn-supporters point of view was the use of the word 'Pakistani'.

How dare she call a spade a spade, even in Yorkshire!

You can rake up as much stuff as you like about the failure of other services, and we are all aware those girls were let down very badly, services did fail them, but the issue here is that the leadership of the Labour party has been found wanting in not daring to refer to an ethnic group (Pakistani men, because it needs saying again) and Sarah Champion is the fall guy for them.

That is the issue being debated and all the rhetoric in the world from Corbyn supporters cannot disguise their tactics and the fact that votes and political correctness mean more to Labour than ethics in this instance.

Spot on Day6

So some Pakistani men abused some children Day^ presumably you are quite happy then to ignore all the other children abused or at risk on our streets simply because you can't target any particular group responsible
No-one is denying there was abuse by some Pakistani men what we are saying is just dealing with that group will not solve a problem which is much wider than you seem to think.
There are cruel and evil men and women still in our society who are probably delighted that the focus has shifted firmly onto a certain group leaving them free to continue abusing vulnerable children.
But continue to blame the left. If anything should have been learned from this it is that comprehensive and efficient caring services are an essential to protect children at risk. Sadly some still dispute that cuts to services will make things worse not better. It must be a great relief to be able to point a finger of blame and not recognise any responsibility.

Eloethan mentioned a detention centre in Durham. Not a girl or Pakistani man amongst the people involved.
It's closed now, many of the perpetrators are dead, and those boys seem to have been forgotten about by the media.
They are still suffering.

So mustn't speak about what is happening now because of what happened in the past.b

Diversion from O/P

Yes, another deflection/diversion.Sad.

Trisher -So some Pakistani men abused some children Day^ presumably you are quite happy then to ignore all the other children abused or at risk on our streets simply because you can't target any particular group responsible

What a strange thing to say or even think.
All child abuse is repulsive.

However, in this case, because, we are talking about Sarah Champion's role in the Yorkshire scandal, we must be aware that within the Muslim community there are men of Pakistani origin who have no qualms about using and abusing white girls.

There is a cultural element to this, a specific threat, which in the past has not been mentioned. We ought to be glad she had the guts to do it.

It's not a difficult concept.

There is a cultural element to this, a specific threat, which in the past has not been mentioned. We ought to be glad she had the guts to do it.
We could also say that most institutionalised abuse of both sexes is largely committed by white males. Do you consider that a 'cultural element' is present in this abuse? Or is it just a group of men pursuing unacceptable practices because they can get away with it?
And if so why are the Pakistani men different?
I understand that some men have no respect for women or children, but I think such ideology can be found in all cultures only some are better at hiding it than others.

From Professor Alexis Jay's report:

"In the broader organisational context there was a widespread perception that messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE. Unsurprisingly, frontline staff appeared to be confused as to what they were supposed to say and do and what would be interpreted as 'racist'. From a political perspective, the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged.
There was too much reliance by agencies on traditional community leaders such as elected members and imams as being the primary conduit of communication with the Pakistani-heritage community. The Inquiry spoke to several Pakistani-heritage women who felt disenfranchised by this and thought it was a barrier to people coming forward to talk about CSE. Others believed there was wholesale denial of the problem in the Pakistani-heritage community in the same way that other forms of abuse were ignored. Representatives of women's groups were frustrated that interpretations of the Borough's problems with CSE were often based on an assumption that similar abuse did not take place in their own community and therefore concentrated mainly on young white girls.
Both women and men from the community voiced strong concern that other than two meetings in 2011, there had been no direct engagement with them about CSE over the past 15 years, and this needed to be addressed urgently, rather than 'tiptoeing' around the issue."

It's time we started challenging the culture that has allowed this to happen - this is 21st century Britain and women & girls (whether white or Asian) are not subservient to men.
Good on Sarah Champion for continuing to support the vulnerable.

durham at 09.45 today you said "^Facts show that 100% of those people in jail for sexually abusing children as individuals rather than in a gang are white males^.

Please could you provide some back up for that statement? I'm interested to hear that those individuals who have sexually abused children, and who have been jailed for those crimes, are 100% white males. I had no idea about that. Could you give me a source so I can read up on that please?

trisher said - It must be a great relief to be able to point a finger of blame and not recognise any responsibility.

Well, that could be interpreted as Labour blaming ANY group other than Pakistani men for this abuse - and distancing themselves from the messenger, because she said something they found unpalatable.

Corbyn's Labour Party doesn't come out of this debacle very well.

How ridiculous and once again an excuse. I have yet to see any of these people who are bashing the Labour Party admitting that the policies of austerity will have exposed more children than ever to abuse of all kinds. But then expecting some sort of moral conscience from them is expecting too much isn't it.
No one has said the Pakistani men accused and convicted weren't responsible, no-one has said some Asian men and some Muslim men are not guilty of abuse,but so were some white catholic priests, so were some white men. Just that targeting one group instead of looking at the larger picture is not helpful.
The best way to stop abuse is to support the most vulnerable in society, to provide them with care and to believe them when they make reports, no matter how difficult their behaviour is.
Even if we could identify every single Pakistani with misogynist views it would be hard to change long standing beliefs. The views they bring with them are entrenched, but hopefully education and information will change those views for succeeding generations.

Only corbynites have some sort of moral conscience? , pity their hero hasn't a scrap

I'm still interested in hearing about the fact that all convicted, and jailed, child sex offenders who acted alone, rather than in gangs (as the Asian rapists were) are, without exception. 100% white male. Can anyone direct me to a link or evidence for this please?

Actually trisher you saying to the posters on here 'expecting some sort of moral conscience from them is expecting too much isn't it' is not only breathtakingly rude but rather ironic given the tone of all your posts.
Further to that, people are not 'bashing the Labour Party' but bashing the Labour Leadership, big difference.

I don't mind being rude about people who espouse policies that deny help and assistance to the poorest and most vulnerable in our society lemongrove in fact I think it is my duty to do so.
My posts have dealt with the realities of the situation, have stated what was not done for girls in the past and what is still not being done now. It is quite ridiculous that anybody should profess to care about such children, blame Pakistani men and at the same time think the services provided for all abused children are adequate. They weren't, they aren't and there is no evidence that they will be in the near future. So quibbling over the niceties of what is being attacked, a leader or a party is just fiddling whilst Rome burns.
Still carry on and keep pretending you are on some sort of moral high ground, just don't pretend that article in the Sun will do anything apart from increase racism and feed the prejudices of many.