Why are we leaving?

If you live in a country for more than 180 days a year, you are obliged to register with the tax authorities and be taxed in that country. That is the law according to the taxation treaties which are independent of the EU.
You do not normally have to register as a resident at the moment because the UK is part of the EU. When the UK leaves the EU that will change.
We chose to register formally this year and had to provide proof of residence, tax returns, health cover and income for five years minimum (we have lived in France for twelve years).
I suspect some people may find themselves in a spot of bother.

That's why my brother registered in Spain, Mamie. He must have been there for over twenty years.
This year he came for his 70th birthday and said that he couldn't see himself coming to the UK again.

GrannyGranby we should perhaps take heart that Labour Party membership is growing while the parties of the right are not doing so well. Tories fretting that they only have 100k members and are struggling to connect with the young. UKIP in disarray and before long they will have more MEPs than members.

Exactly Mamie Jen to be legally living you need to be TAX registered in your country of domicile. For most Brits it is beneficial to do so as Many EU countries have lower tax bands - but those Brits receiving Govt pensions - teachers NHS workers etc -- still pay tax at source in UK PLUS tax in their country of actual abode!
You can then also vote in EU elections and Local ones where you live - and certain UK ones if you are under 15 years away.
Spain has I believe free health care similar to UK- France does not - Brits in France need top up care and you cannot get a French health card unless you are tax registered etc.
All very complicated for many people. Those with simply 'holiday homes' will not be so affected as those with actual 'homes' in EU.

Further to Brussels’s deciding to step up talks with labour. It is clear that the commission is not the body being mean, as the Tories would have us believe, but the individual E27 countries. One ambassador said “its not our job to save the Tory party”

gillybob at 9.11 this morning

We should brace ourselves for a massive exist of what is left of our manufacturing.

Of course, Leavers will be prepared for this as Patrick Minford, the economist who led the 'Economists for Leave' team (the only set of economists who predicted that the UK would thrive economically post- Brexit) did say that we were likely to lose the rest of our manufacturing base post Brexit. So, no surprise there. I don't recall quite what we were going to replace it with.

Perhaps Leavers who read all the articles very carefully and weighed up the pros and cons (which means all of you, according to your posts) can help us out here. What are we going to trade in once manufacturing is gone?

Apart from whisky, special jam and pigs' ears, of course..

Good to know that labour are firmly rejecting a no deal.

They are looking for significant improvement in the Repeal Bill in order to ensure workers rights, and environmental standards.

They will unilaterally ensure immigrants rights.

They will seek to become strong partners with the EU, nd continue to belong to all the various agencies.

They argue that Mays silly belligerency has left this government in the worse possible position in the negotiations.

It is very apparent from the manufacturing forums I am a member of that the bigger NE business leaders are extremely worried. The company to which I referrred earlier ( a house hold name) is already taking steps to protect its interests in Europe by moving production lines out of the UK . I predict that many others will follow very soon. As you say MazieD we can't run the UK on Whisky, jam, pigs ears and fresh air .
( well it's still nice and fresh here on the NE coast anyway).

According to MN Charles Grant has tweeted that May has given in to almost everything relating to immigrants, including consulting with the ECJ.

That’s only taken 9months -at this rate we will have left by the next century.

Brexit and anti capitalism all rolled up in one disasterous package.

gilly businesses are beyond worried about Brexit. I have friends who are in close contact with the business world and some like your friends are actively pursuing moving Europe.

This means jobs by the thousands. Does any brexiter care?

My DH are struggling with our own consciences as we have been asked to assist in the move which will undoubtedly result in UK job losses. We need the work but at what cost to others ? If we don't do it someone else will. As I have said a million times before we definitely weren't cut out for being in business as a true business mind wouldn't give it a second thought .

Oh gilly there are thousands of small businesses out there who see their work place as a small family and clearly take less from the business than they could in order to keep their staff.

I have seen that over and over again.

It is a conundrum I know, but taking the work and ensuring employment for your staff has a lot to be said for it.

The powerful behind the Leave campaign will not suffer too much in the slump that would undoubtedly follow hard brexit. They are rich. The rich are pretty good at stashing their wealth in tax havens. Their children don't go to state schools and they can pay for private health care. And their ultimate aim is to turn the UK into a low regulation, low wage, low tax economy. This will take a while but they will weather the storm. By low regulation they mean things like stripping back employment rights and environmental standards. We will still have to follow all the EU rules about product specifications because we could not export to the EU without them. By most people's standards this evil project will involve trashing the country we know including the NHS. There is absolutely nothing to look forward to.

If we leave, and I still hope it is if and not when, it will be because of the vested interests of the super rich, foreigners or tax exiles such as the owners of the right wing tabloids. They fed their readers a diet of sex, scandals, gossip and lies and it worked for them. The rest of us suffer the consequenses.

Who was it who said "it is far easier to fool people than to get them to admit they have been fooled?"

This from City AM a few days ago:

Massive non-EU manufacturing export jump needed to make up for hard Brexit EU losses says report

British manufacturers in key sectors will have to increase exports to non-EU countries by as much as 60 per cent to make up for lost EU trade under a “hard Brexit” scenario, according to a new report.

A hard Brexit, in which the UK and the EU fail to agree a future trading relationship and default to World Trade Organisation terms, would see revenues from EU exports fall by £17bn per year, according to the report by law firm Baker McKenzie and consultancy Oxford Economics.

www.cityam.com/273023/massive-non-eu-export-jump-needed-make-up-hard-brexit-eu

Which kind of contradicts Minford's scenario and makes a nonsense of calls from hardline Brexiters to 'just leave now, don't bother with negotiations'.

What worries me the most I guess Mazie is that manufacturers are panicking and by the time all these negotiations come to any sort of fruition will there be any manufacturing left ? It's not looking good for us. I wish I could say more, but dare not.

I am not a politician so voted with what little knowledge I had at the time. I believe that most of us, regardless of which way we voted, did it from a place of ignorance. There was so little information made easily available at the time without diving into Hansard or other papers. Neither side put their arguments forward well - too much complacency I think.

But remainers did not need the information. We were quite happy to continue as we were and try and influence things from within, as has been happening for years.
Just watch the video in ygg's OP to see how.

I agree, Durhamjen. Maybe I did not mean us remainders?

Sorry! Remainers. (Stupid spellcheck)

What I also think people don’t understand that the WTO deal is probably going worse than the EU deal if that is possible,

Fox is getting absolutely nowhere and is being blocked by countries like Canada USA and NZ at every turn.

I suspect that this is largely down to sheer ignorance on his part.

"Along with many others in this country I didn't sign up to a federal Europe. Nowhere in the maastricht treaty did it say so! I signed up to an "economic relationship" nothing more, so that is why I and many others are leaving"

I find it unforgivable that we are leaving because of such lazy ignorance.

Treaty of Rome
The 1957 Treaty Establishing the European Community contained the objective of “ever closer union” in the following words in the Preamble. In English this is: “Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe …..”.

Article 2 of the Treaty also promoted the ‘spirit’ of closer union in its description of the aims of the Community, ending with “closer relations between the States belonging to it”.

Solemn Declaration on European Union
In the Solemn Declaration on European Union of June 1983, the then ten heads of state and government (including the UK) agreed: … on the basis of an awareness of a common destiny and the wish to affirm the European identity, confirm their commitment to progress towards an ever closer union among the peoples and Member States of the European Community.

The Solemn Declaration added “closer union among Member States, as well as the peoples of Europe”.

Single European Act
Under the 1986 Single European Act, Member States were: “MOVED by the will to … transform relations as a whole among their States into a European Union”.

Maastricht Treaty
The objective of “ever closer union” was retained in the Preamble to the 1992 Treaty on European Union (Maastricht Treaty):
RESOLVED to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity.

Amsterdam and Nice
The 1997 Amsterdam Treaty added a new qualification to “ever closer union”: “in which decisions are taken as openly as possible and as closely as possible to the citizen”. The Nice Treaty did not change this.

Lisbon Treaty
Since Lisbon (2009) the EU Treaties have contained three references to “ever closer union”:
The Preamble to the Treaty on European Union:
RESOLVED to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity.

Article 1 TEU with similar wording to earlier Treaties:
This Treaty marks a new stage in the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as openly as possible and as closely as possible to the citizen.

The Preamble to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU - the renamed TEC):
DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe ….

(I am sorry if someone has already said this - I am working my way through and catching up.)

I wish some of the young people who were convinced that all the oldies would vote Leave could read this discussion, and see how outward-looking and pro-European many of us are. Many of us have travelled or worked in Europe, speak European languages, have had friends and contacts there for decades, and would like our grandchildren to enjoy the same freedoms.

Thank you, GG for reminding us of the facts. Far too many people chose to believd the myths and lies peddled by the leavers.