Corbyns Torque

"these and those" Jalima1108 I was using Annie's terminology are you saying she isn't gramatically correct?

I didn't understand the 'them' and 'they' references.

We're all in this together as the saying goes.

All those young people not concerned with the thought of no university fees but wanting a fairer society , and the carrot - refunding some fees ?

The many who voted for Clegg were very concerned about no university fees

No Trisher, Jalima was not saying I was grammatically incorrect, she wouldn't be so ill mannered or smug

Wilma - this from the document.

"priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union"

As the EU powers that be have said (and rightly so, I suppose) you cannot want to leave the EU but take bits of it with you - like the (ahem) 'benefits' of a single market and customs union.

This is a sitting on the fence policy. No one knows where Labour stands on the EU. Most want to remain. Labour Leavers expected Jeremy Corbyn to get on that bus, but he hasn't. He hasn't convinced either side of his position.

We all know he is a Eurosceptic. He knows why the EU isn't in the interests of ordinary working people. I wish he'd fight for his beliefs. It's a strange cop out for a man of principles.

With respect Day6, he is not a man of principles, it's a tag given him be his devotees

GG This is their third, or is it forth, "I hate Corbyn" thread

Oh dear. Sorry you don't like it GG. We have lost count of the number of anti-establishment, government-bashing threads you old hard left types communists have set up.

I didn't understand the 'them' and 'they' references.

We're all in this together as the saying goes.
Apparently apart from university students Jalima1108. They are to blame for everything!!!

I always saw Corbyn as someone who would be a thorn in Labour's side, Annie, way back from the bad old days of Militant accessing the Labour party. He is a Militant at heart, so from that point of view, he had certain 'principles', even though he held them on the back benches. He was never a front bench Labour politician, and whether we like his ideals or not, what disappoints me is he is allowing Momentum to forge ahead and do his dirty work. Is he craftily still playing the quiet back-bencher, but being the figure head for this movement?

What disappoints me is his sitting on the fence. It's a clever game to keep moderates onside but allow his 'principles' (or set of beliefs) to the fore, via his hard-left henchmen.

It's duplicitous. He is playing the innocent fairly respectable face of Labour, not muddying the waters, whilst Momentum drive the party, to his delight.

It's very two-faced...so perhaps 'principles' isn't the right word. I just wish he would show his true colours.

Trisher given you know NOTHING of the backgrounds of the people writing here, or of their experiences, how can you say this?

"They have such a blinkered and narrow vision of life."

I bet most of us could tell you tales of severe hardship and tragedy that would make your hair curl.

Don't be so quick with your nasty put-downs when you know nothing of the reality of our lives. So caring and concerned, you left wingers, aren't you? Your true colours are showing. It's a shame Jezza is hiding his.

Trouble is Day6 he cannot/will not show his true colours , unless he get into .No 10, then it will be too late for the country

Day6 some people can do all manner of things and remain "blinkered" one's vision of life isn't necessarily improved by hardship. Arguably you know nothing about me (and I'm certainly not going to tell you much). My comments were about people's ideas and beliefs. If you choose to take it personally then so be it. But if you really want to be as caring and considerate as you say perhaps you should stop condemning young people for their idealism. Idealists built this society after WW2 and thank goodness for them.

Yet Trisher you had no problem is thinking because I help my brother in his business I did so for payment , this was a blinkered assumption.

believes that life could be better if rich people contributed a bit more and we had a functioning education system and NHS- From the cradle to the Grave

Well, surprise, surprise, most people want this too.

I firmly believe we have to ensure the wealthy pay a fair share via taxes. I am also aware that if you make the UK an unattractive place to live for the wealthy because you penalise them harshly, they have the means to do a disappearing act and take their wealth with them.

Their wealth creates work, jobs and their spending here boosts the economy. I appreciate it is having an undesirable affect on property and house prices, especially in London and that needs to be addressed. There is a fine line to be drawn to correct the balance. I hope it can be achieved. The super rich are getting richer and should contribute to the UK coffers accordingly.

However, last time I looked, the NHS and schools and Universities are doing OK. Yes, the NHS is creaking with the demands places on it, but as I write I have a friend in the high dependency unit of a Newcastle hospital who has just had a life-saving heart operation. My OH celebrated a former colleagues son graduating from one of the best Universities in the land last year. The family came to Britain with almost nothing just over 20 years ago. Their son went through the school system. I have been saved by the NHS. I am a graduate too, despite being born into poverty 60 years ago. My parents were immigrants.

The system DOES work and we sometimes forget to be thankful. Yes, we can pour more money in. It's vital that we keep our schools performing well and our NHS being funded properly.

However - shouldn't these be cross-party concerns now, not political footballs?

Conservatives want this t happen, as do Labour voters. I am not sure where we differ really.

The thorn in the side of Labour voters is wealth. You cannot destroy the wealthy or scorn them. That is the politics of envy. Getting them to pay their fair share is ok with everybody...those on the left and right I would have thought. A fairer society is what it's all about....but we don't do that by throwing money at the poorest. We provide opportunities - like free schooling, free health care and a means to make the most of those opportunities - like post school training, apprenticeships and further education. It's all there and it's vital it remains there. People also have to grasp those opportunities and not expect the state to fund them from cradle to grave. That is opportunistic unless you are frail, sick, disabled or severely disadvantaged. I am glad we live in a welfare state. It has to thrive and be protected.

I am fighting for all this from right of centre now, I cannot join forces with the present Labour party.

Oh I'm sorry Anniebach but I did assume that if you were struggling and in some sort of financial need your family would ensure you were adequately compensated. If I was wrong I apologise- but isnt The labourer worthy of his hire?

I assume you had free university education Day6 and yet you would deny this to others.
As for the NHS have you been on a desert island somewhere? Or are you just ignoring what doctors and nurses are warning?
Right of centre , I suppose it depends what you consider centre and that shifted so far right with Thatcher and Blair right of centre is now ultra conservative (but no one wants to admit that)

A tad ill mannered Trisher to be nosy about another poster and their finances, better to stop now?

When I last looked we had free education for all and a free NHS too.

Or, if some are nit picking, free at the point of delivery.

What do you think of Momentum trisher and what they are doing?
Are you the poster who said recently that their Grandfather was a Communist and started arguments in pubs?
If so, I suppose you are very happy with Momentum.

Try reading what is written lemon I ASSUMED the education was free I ASKED why others shoud be denied that.
University Education is not free.

I know very little about Momentum. I do know the Labour Party has in the past had disagreements, has split, has had various names and has never been the single voice some seem to assume it should be. It's called democracy, people discuss, disagree and reach a resolution.
And yes, grandad was a communist, a union activist and a member of the Labour Party. Although his arguments in pubs tended to focus on how ill informed people are and how easily they are swayed.

I could say the same trisher as my ‘free at the point of delivery’ comment was a follow up to my previous post, and wasn’t anything to do with Uni fees.
Of course ‘others should be denied that’ ....too many go to Uni now for it to be free, if there were only 1960’s or 1970’s
Levels then it would be possible, but it isn’t!

Idealism has to go hand in glove with reality. I have ideals. I always have, but age, wisdom, lots of living and experience has made me more thoughtful, realistic and practical.

Don't they say every tax payer eventually stops wanting radical idealism? Once you pay the bills, work 9-5 (or longer) and pay your taxes you want a society that works for everyone....yourself included. Workers/tax payers/those paying their National Insurance every single month (health care, education, law and order etc, isn't really 'free') want to see value for money and THEIR lives benefit.

I marched at many rallies, sat-in and barricaded Uni buildings, boycotted Barclays bank for being in S Africa, was going to smash apartheid, and keep all the collieries open in my youth.

I still protest and retain many principles. I also want fairness, a fairness which includes workers benefiting from their efforts and home owners not being penalised for having a mortgage. I want the rail companies to be aware they cannot shaft the people who use them, and I want health tourism to be outlawed too. I want affordable housing to be on the agenda of the government. I want to see our towns free of rough sleepers...

Ideals or practicalities? A bit of both maybe.

That reminds me of the song ‘two lovely black eyes’ Trisher ‘only for telling a man he was wrong, I got two lovely black eyes’.

I've had free education trisher and I'm currently paying for it, so I've seen both sides.
I don't think someone on minimum wage should pay tax to fund university education. Oxbridge graduates will earn over £1 million more in their lifetime than someone who leaves school without A Levels (on average). I don't see why the later should subsidise the former.

Maybe you should inform yourself a bit about Momentum then if you know very little about it - listen to your grandad, he might be right about ill-informed people.