Corbyns Torque

It does amaze me that an avowed left winger trisher can know ‘little about Momentum’ there is plenty of information and reading out there, not to mention watching anything to do with politics on tv.They are talked about constantly.
Can it be that secretly you are uncomfortable with their methods?

Day6 I absolutely agree that you have to focus on realistic and practical change. Incremental steps and building on the gains made. It's the only way you can deliver real change.

Wonder why your grandfather wasn't a member of the communist party Trisher

did not Trisher say - there will be no deselection ? Surely this will be decided by .Momentum yet Trisher knows little about momentum

I don't think someone on minimum wage should pay tax to fund university education. Oxbridge graduates will earn over £1 million more in their lifetime than someone who leaves school without A Levels (on average). I don't see why the later should subsidise the former
But the Oxbridge graduates pay more tax. Graduates are doctors and professionals and we need them. Apart from the fact that the present system is unsustainable and will implode in a few years time (It was the best bit of marketing Mr Blair ever did!)
I have read about Momentum, but as such reports are usually written by right wing journalists I choose to take them with a pinch of salt (unlike some who seem to swallow things as gospel) I do know some dedicated communists who want nothing to do with the Labour Party. Perhaps I should know more but things are hectic just now, so I'll stick with my belief that the Labour party is a broad church and has absorbed many movements and survived. Even Mr Blair draggng it to the right didn't destroy it.
If anyone can post examples of the small steps this government is taking to improve the lives of the poor I'd love to see them.

Of course ‘others should be denied that’ ....too many go to Uni now for it to be free, if there were only 1960’s or 1970’s

You are right lemon.

Only the truly academic went to University in the 60s and 70s. All sixth forms were academic. You had to have good A levels. Women started going to University. They were in the minority still.

Times were VERY different. I was expected really to leave school and find a job at 15. To stay on was a huge hardship for my family. I had to graft at weekends to bring some money in to the home. We hitch-hiked back from Uni because we couldn't afford coach or train fares. We lived on toast and jam and cheap beer in student bars.

It is a different world. You cannot make comparisons. Today's students are so poor they drink coffee at £3 a cup, drive cars, pay for en suite facilities in halls, use trains to travel. Universities are really cashing in. Go to any university town and see all the building going on. All they care about is bums on seats. It's very lucrative. People from all over the globe, many of whom can't speak English get places at our Universities. That is a bit of a racket and it undermines standards too, but it IS very profitable. We have given kids the belief that they can have a degree. So off they trot to Uni, with their lack of real educational achievement when back in the 1960s they'd have not even been interviewed, never mind offered a place. Now Universities offer so many foundation courses for those without qualifications as a means to get in.

Times have changed. Progress has brought about different ways of doing things. You cannot put the clocks back. You cannot harp back to "miners, Thatcher, free University" etc, etc, etc, but it does seem to be the ploy of the left.

McDonnell, Shadow Chancellor, hasn't a clue as to how he'll fund his 'idealism'.

We have to "check our ipads for figures" apparently. Very reassuring.

I seem to remember the Conservatives getting rid of tax for very low earners trisher for a start.Also ring fencing the old age pension.

If anyone can post examples of the small steps this government is taking to improve the lives of the poor I'd love to see them.

THE POOR.

You use this as a focus as if this is the only sector of society. Why do so many POOR people want to enter the UK? (Legally or illegally.)

In the UK we give money to the poor, to those without. We provide free schooling, free health care, housing benefits, advocates, free advice, accommodation. Bear in mind working people of the UK pay taxes and NI to ensure these services exist.

I am glad we do. Most poor people want to get on, to get out of poverty and to prosper. To do this they have to work and most do. If their income is low, they get benefit top-ups.

Please tell me what more we can do, bearing in mind the tax payer ultimately pays for our welfare state?

Just how would Jeremy change things? Which sector of society will pay for his plans to make the poor richer? Do tell.

Oh that was a vote-buyer if ever there was one!
People from all over the globe do come to our universities and pay huge fees to do so. But the system of student loans and fees charged to UK residents is unfit for purpose and will never do what it was hoped it would. Still as long as people are prepared to believe the old chestnut of "we can't afford it" I suppose it has done its job. Although present figures suggest it will eventually cost more than funding student grants. Still you were sold the idea you stick to it. Eventually someone will have to wipe out the huge unpaid debt that even loan companies don't want to take on. How they will sell that to you I can't wait to see!

trisher I can't believe that it is another left winger who has made me feel so angry. It is possible to agree with Corbyn's beliefs as an MP and policies as Party Leader without necessarily agreeing he is the best person to lead the party in the next General Election and further. I am not anti Corbyn or anti Momentum and started to post on this thread only recently to support the leadership of the party. I'm not going to hang around though somewhere when someone from my side of the chamber comes in and starts attacking the wrong side. I'm not that stupid.

Only the truly academic went to University in the 60s and 70s

Just how arrogant can you get. Had their been any sort of equal opportunity you might be half right.

Sorry Wilma you've lost me who am I supposed to be attacking? Blair? He was never left wing. Always an opportunist, but many believed him at the time. I just know Corbyn has brought a new generation into politics and that seems to be a good enough reason to keep him as leader. All the arguments on here posted by once- lefties have been used for ages. But as my son said when he cancelled his membership of the Labour Party "I always knew as I got older my views might move to the right I just didn't expect that the Labour Party would be doing it."

But Wilma, surely every party member wants the best person to lead the party into the next election ?

The same Labour Party which won three elections Trisher?

Only the truly academic went to University in the 60s and 70s
Not true
Even with grants for Higher Education etc some families were too poor to let their 16 year olds to stay on at school for the sixth form.

The 1945 win by labour was a one off and the country turned to the tories. Blair wins three elections and he is condemned , most odd

"People from all over the globe do come to our universities and pay huge fees to do so"

And the Universities are raking it in. There has to be more growth in that business sector than any other. It is extremely lucrative yet the standard of entrant is going down. Why isn't that being investigated?

There were clothing grants and other money avsiable to sixth formers Jalima1108 and the poorest families continued to receive support until this gov cut EMA. Students in Scotland, Wales and N Ireland continue to receive it

"the system of student loans and fees charged to UK residents is unfit for purpose "

I agree.

However, students know what they are taking on. No one forces a student to take out a loan, and those loans (Deferred payments, some never paid back) allow students to live very good lives for three years at Uni.

Not only that, land is being bought by Unis at an incredible rate. The money comes from? Yep, the world and its wife (anyone) being allowed a Uni place and paying for it but deferring that payment.

Corruption on a legal scale.

It is extremely lucrative yet the standard of entrant is going down.
Evidence Day6? Most ofthe people I know who are going to university have at least one A level grade A and a couple of Bs. Some even have 4 As. Don't remember many students with 4 A levels in the past of any grade.

But Wilma, surely every party member wants the best person to lead the party into the next election ?

But AB yours is just one opinion not a fact (I know you find it difficult to believe that). There are others who believe Corbyn is the best person to lead the Labour Party at the moment. I see their has already been inferences of communism. Perhaps the next of your Corbyn hating threads should be called the "McCarthyism" thread as you seem to be taking your lead from that twisted man. What will we have AB? Disagree with those who agree with me and you are a Communist. Very nasty but I have already noticed one such comment.

These who don't agree with you are people that just think that, at the moment, he is doing okay. They are not obsessed as some on this thread appear to be - they just think we need a move to the left after all the moves towards the far right that seem to be what you - a so called socialist - approve of.

lemongrove you might remember the Conservatives getting rid of tax for low earners, but you should remember that was a Liberal Democrat policy which the conservatives fought hard against .

It was one battle during the coalition that the LibDems won, although the Conservatives now claim credit for, unlike the equally hard fought battle over tuition fees which the Conservatives won, but managed to ensure that the LibDems got the blame.

There were clothing grants and other money avsiable to sixth formers Jalima1108
Yes, so I've learnt since joining GN. However, rather late now.

There was, of course, day release and night school which gave many opportunities to gain qualifications and pave the way to taking degree courses later on.

Most of the students I know are also working part time to support themselves. They may party occasionally but you couldn't live on a student loan never mind a good life

'Only the truly academic went to University in the 60s and 70s'

"Just how arrogant can you get. Had their been any sort of equal opportunity you might be half right."

There was dear Trisher. It was called the COMPREHENSIVE system of education. Have you forgotten that? Purpose built comprehensive schools were being built all over the UK in the '60s as grammar schools were ostracised by the left.

Still only those (poor kids) with an INTELLECT capable of passing A levels went into the sixth form. Others left at 15/16 with O levels of CSEs to seek work or apprenticeships. Nerdy brain boxes went on to two more years in the 6th form and entered further education. Those in the world of work had further education at college day classes or night school. Many of the less academic did better in life than those going on to University.

That's the way it was. Would you scorn those working class children with brains? Now intellect is being scorned by lefties as 'arrogance'.

Unbelievable.

Talk about wanting the lowest common denominator. What a dreadful attitude you have to anyone getting on in life.