Grans Moral Maze

I think religion should have no place in schools etc, as GillT57 says.

BBbevan, I think it's also because pigs are scavengers and eat anything. Some Jewish people also don't eat shellfish such as prawns because they scavenge on the sea floor.

Same here- religion should be a private matter- and should have no place in schools, the government and the Judiciary- at all.

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Looking at a few google results tells me that Jews don't eat pork because their criteria for animals that could be eaten was that they had cloven hooves (pigs do) and chewed the cud (pigs don't). So they're not kosher. It seems like a rather odd reason for not eating them but it is very deeply ingrained.

But this article takes it a bit further:

www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/87719/forbidden-food

It seems that the 'impure' idea comes from Islam (muslims don't eat pork either).

Maybe these religions made an early connection between eating undercooked pork and the possibility of ingesting trichinosis worms; though as primitive populations were probably infested with worms from all sorts of causes it seems unlikely...

Agreed varian Just as we may decide it is wrong to carry out physical assaults on children, could you not also argue that all children who are capable of benefitting from integrated mainstream education should not be deprived of the opportunity This is imposition of religious belief, possibly with the best of intentions, but it is by keeping children separated that we end up with hatred/suspicions of 'others'/misunderstanding. When I take over, the religious schools will be one of the first things that I abolish

with you all the wayGilT

I totally agree with you MaisieD and SueDonim The point I was making is that a C of E clergyman believed this.

I’m against religious indoctrination in schools (obviously) but I’m not sure that you can exclude all references to it.
How can you teach the history of the Middle Ages without reference to religion, for example?
And would you ban Christmas plays?
I was saddened to realise that my American GC learned nothing of the Christmas story at school.
We may be a secular society but Christian values and teachings still have a place in society.

And learning about world religions can be a means of teaching tolerance for others’ views.

If a child's parents are Christian presumably they will tell the child "the Christmas Story". Likewise if a family goes to a Christian church. Presumably the same applies to children in families belonging to and practising other religions: i.e. the children are told the relevant stories, etc. I think it wiuld be unreasonable to expect schools to cover all of that which, if it is actually 'education', is what they should be attempting. Why not just leave the teaching of religious stories to families and churches?

There are other stories associated with midwinter feasting which are just as valid as "the Christmas Story". I don't think schools cover those much, if at all.

That said, I've never personally objected to Nativity plays at the schools my kids attended. They are usually hilarious anyway and involve all sorts of non-religious ideas like fairies.

agreed jane, of course- makes total sense.

Totally agree with the Humanist Society that if we are going to teach 'ABOUT' religion, then we also must teach about the validity of making the choice to live morally wihtout.

Surely the CofE clergyman had heard of the Gadarene swine, and of the prodigal son living off the husks that the swine did eat? That said, why did the locals keep pigs, if not to eat them?

He probably had. But they weren't in the desert were they?
He was talking about the origins of religions , not stories or parables added later

Religious education in schools teaches about different beliefs and should cover many religions (not just two which I believe is required in the so-called "faith schools"). It should include non-religious philosphies and be set in a historical context.

In the UK Christianity has been the dominant religious tradition but children need to be given knowledge, not just indoctrinated with one rigid set of beliefs.

I think that if a religious group feels the need to indoctrinate their children and not allow them to mix with others or learn that others have different beliefs, this points to a fund
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emental insecurity about the "truth" of their faith.

sorry about the glitch

That said, why did the locals keep pigs, if not to eat them?

I have a feeling that the Gaderenes weren't Jews. So they could eat what they liked...

With regard to teaching religion in schools, particularly Christianity. Christianity has been a key driver of historical events for hundreds of years; think of Henry VIII, the Spanish Armada (and the RC plots to depose Eliz I), the English Civil War, the deposition of King James II. And, much nearer in time, the Troubles in Northern Ireland. They are all very closely connected to religion. How can children understand our history without knowing about Christianity and the deep divisions it led to.

It's a difficult one, I know, because I think that, having had it explained to them, our very secular children would probably be astounded and disbelieving that religion could have such a key role.

The Gadarenes were primarily Greek, so they probably could tuck in to a bit of pork. My point was really that in the first century AD pigs were commonplace in Judaea, so much so that they feature twice in the gospels. By the time the Pentateuch was finished the Jews were in the promised land, flowing with milk and honey, not to mention water, where it was perfectly feasible to breed swine, so the desert argument doesn't seem to stand up.

There is a huge time gap between the making of the Jewish laws and Mohammed knocking off the Koran,

Delete last sentence!

I wouldn't ban teaching about religion in schools. It's essential to know about religion to make sense of history - how would we teach about Henry VIII without reference to religion?

It's the influence of religion that's wrong, not the knowledge of it.

Exactly SueDonim. The study of comparative religions fits well with learning about history and societies.

indeed Henry certainly shows how religion can be manipulated for personal gain ...

I really like the way the French teach 'philosophy' and the great thinkers and philosophers through time- including religious ones.

Teaching children about religion, and about others' beliefs, about the impact of religion in the history of the country is important. Isolating children in Faith schools where they are taught only the beliefs of their own community is not right, is discriminatory, drastically reduces the opportunity of girls (usually) to partake in further or higher education, to live the kind of life that our daughters take for granted, the chance to travel, share a flat with friends, marry who they wish without risking possible ostracism from their community.

The proposal to ban circimcison of children, except for medical reasons, is being opposed by Christians.

Agnes Sigurdarsdottir, Bishop of Iceland and head of the Icelandic Lutheran Church, says that banning ritual circumcision will make the 2000 Jews and Muslims living in Iceland feel unwelcome.