Corbyn's Magnetism

lemon, I share that view. Given how dreadfully split the party was over the leadership issue, I am quite annoyed that those less hard left MPs in the Labour Party haven't stood up to voice their concerns about Momentum's manoeuvres and hold. The fact that those not wholly loyal to Corbyn and the aims of far left Momentum are likely to lose their seats at the next election is the reason why I suppose. If they haven't got the courage of their convictions it's a poor show. At the next election the Labour Party will be fielding hard left candidates and only those sympathetic to Momentum. I find that extremely worrying.

Does anyone know the answer to my question or do I need to go on a Brexit thread to ask it?

Please?
I'm interested in why Jeremy Corbyn changed his mind as I am someone who sat on the fence for a long while before deciding which way to vote.

I suspect Jalima because he is a serial fence sitter, so much so, as I put on another thread, it’s a wonder he doesn’t have splinters in his derriere.There is also the distinct possibility that he didn’t have the courage of his convictions.

Yes Jalima, that surprised me too. Of all Eurosceptics, Corbyn lead the way, not just trecently, but for decades. He was opposed to the EU. I don't know why he did a complete U turn. I can only imagine it was party pressure and the desire to thwart the Government and the negotiations. That seems to be his default mode - a knee jerk need to upset the establishment.

A break away party would secure a win for a conservative government . 31 labour M.P's broke away because the party was going far left, they formed a new party in i think 1981, I remember going to listen to Shirley Williams in Cardiff at the time , the SDP didn't have the money to take on a Union funded party . If MP's broke away this time they would have to fight Momentum as well as the far left . If they go public they will face deselection. The Labour Party is no longer a Democratic Party.

Ooops. Led, not "lead" in my above post.

A break away party would secure a win for a conservative government
But if some of the discontents in the conservative party joined them, along with Lib Dems who feel they are going nowhere that could make a difference.

Funding is the problem though as you say Anniebach - up against parties funded by those with their own agendas on either side.

I think you are right Annie.

I agree Annie. It's sadly ironic that those moulding the Labour party have become authoritarian. There is no room in it for discussion or dissent. The power given to Lily Madigan, and then to the awful Munroe Berghof ( until she resigned because of the outcry/outrage) seems to me typical of the way in which Labour is going. The lunatic fringe has power now.

Breaking away from a party which you have been loyal to for a long time isn't that easy, does one turn away or stay with it and keep fighting anyway one can.

On a personal note, I weep when I read the letters from Hardie and my g grandfathers journals . I have finally decided what to do with them, they will go to The National Library of Wales , I can't give them to the Welsh Government now, Momentum are gunning for Carwyn

Just catching up with my mail. We have an election in April for deputy first minister (first time) . Two women are standing , one is backed by Unite and several other unions, the other by Momentum ! Oh thump

Day6 ^ Given how dreadfully split the party was over the leadership issue, ^ But the party wasn't split only the parliamentary Labour Party. The party itself voted overwhelmingly for Corbyn 59.9% of the vote in 1st election 61.8% in the 2nd.
Have a 'centrist' party if you want. But the policies you describe as far-left have always been Labour Party policies. The party has simply returned to its roots. If you don't like it -tough!

The attitude of the Corbyn party - if you don't like it tough

Jalima I said he ‘tries to be true...’.

There are times when you have to look to the greater good. I firmly believe he held his anti-EU views as a back bencher but as leader of the opposition is a very different proposition. He has had to modify firmly held beliefs and I admire that in him.

There have been times in my life when I’ve had I go along with things when I’d have rather had held firm to my own beliefs. But that’s life.

There has to be evolution within political parties I suppose. The Conservative Party is no longer the party of the aristocracy just as the Labour Party is no longer the champion of working classes.

Labour strongholds tend to be full of young rebels or right-on academic liberals in their ivory towers. I don't recognise the party my father supported for so long Annie. As a factory worker he appreciated Unions and workers rights, as I do and all right- minded workers should. Labour now supports open border immigration, which the EU relies on, to keep the workforce fluid and to keep wages low. Desperate people tend to take anything. Bob Crow, before he died, spoke out many times against the austerity which the EU drives. Labour doesn't seem to be there for anyone of late, apart from blokes with male genitalia who identify as women.

The party of common sense, with compassion, an understanding of the needs of a multicultural society which doesn't dismiss national pride, which has financial awareness and the ability to encourage everyone to make the most of their opportunities whilst appreciating the frail, disable, sick and disadvantaged have to be cared for as well as those working who also need to see some reward for their efforts is one I'll vote for. Labour no longer ticks those boxes. It's become at its core a hard left party in disarray, keen only on the destruction of the status quo.

Great post Day6

Well Day6 I fail to see either compasion or understanding in your post. "academic liberals" inhabit "ivory towers", immigration keeps wages low, transgender people are "blokes with male genitalia who identify as women". So you can keep your party. I'll stick to one that hs real democratic values and is totally inclusive. No matter how much you pretend to be thoughtful and understanding your post reveals real prejudice and discrimination and a total lack of appreciation of today's society.

Labour strongholds tend to be full of young rebels or right-on academic liberals in their ivory towers.

Ad hominin (and rubbish besides)

Great post Day6 well said.

It's about as "good" as saying all Yorkshiremen have whippets and wear cloth caps. It's rubbish to attack a whole party by describing its "strongholds" - whatever that is meant to mean - as being populated by only one stereotype. My own stereotyping would attribute it to too much reading of the DM. I doubt that either is accurate - although ... ... ...

I didn't see any politics in that post.

Jalima yes, funding would be a major problem for any break away Party, but who knows what is going on behind the scenes, they would need to know the money is there before they did break away.If they do nothing, and their cards are marked by being on the Team Corbyn hit list of MP’s who don’t support him, then it’s just a matter of waiting to be deselected.

Good post Day6

Six moderate Labour HQ staff quit today. Probably before they were sacked by Jennie Formby when she's confirmed at the general secretary tomorrow.

Well said Day6

I missed that one GGMK2 Never realised that I was living amongst young rebels and academic liberals. I always thought this was a working class area.

Were did you see that Primrose?