Corbyn's Elasticity

Who was speaking?

This is not about the Tory party Yggdrasil, you are proud because the Labour Party has no more anti semetics than UKIP ?

Trisher I have never said the demo represented the entire Jewish community, why oh why are you still in denial?

How can Shawcroft defending an anti semetic post be part of a plot by the tories ?

Why is it not possible for MP's who supported the demo did so because they abhor anti semitism ?

Lammy has been praised often over the tower fire now he is threatened with de selection, you have not made any attempt to defend him, you believe him to be part of a plot too?

lemongrove I am probably at oddswith a lot of people about the censorship of art. I do however have the backing of the Supreme Court
Two fundamental principles come into play whenever a court must decide a case involving freedom of expression. The first is "content neutrality"-- the government cannot limit expression just because any listener, or even the majority of a community, is offended by its content. In the context of art and entertainment, this means tolerating some works that we might find offensive, insulting, outrageous -- or just plain bad.

The second principle is that expression may be restricted only if it will clearly cause direct and imminent harm to an important societal interest. The classic example is falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater and causing a stampede. Even then, the speech may be silenced or punished only if there is no other way to avert the harm.

Trisher, you just don't get it or will not admit it. The fact Corbyn supported the artist by saying - Rockefeller destroyed Vieras mural because it includes a picture of Lenin.

Rockefeller- Jew , get it ?

The Supreme Court upholding the rule of law and freedom of expression

Annie I wouldn't bother. Some people will never agree. It's not as though we're discussing something that's even a work of art. It was a temporary mural and this controversy seems to have really elevated its status. No one will remember who he was in a few months.

Then supporting anti semitism is legal , interesting.

True Primrose , will never agree or enjoy disagreeing !

We all know what 'working from home' really means
Getting twice as much done because there are not constant interruptions from colleagues who can't sort out their own problems - apparently.

It just couldn't get any more satirical. Christine Shawcroft is going to stay in her position now, apparently, as she has been elected and that's the process.

You really don't like democracy do you Primrose. Just because someone is being attacked by the enemies of Labour doesn't mean they can just sack her. If, after due process, it is proved she has done something wrong then is the time to expect them to apply whatever measures are appropriate.

I have a feeling that the Tory Justice secretary will be learning this lesson when Parole Board Chairman takes him to court for constructive dismissal which it looks as if he has a very good case for. Then again the sense of Tory entitlement will make them think that automatic dismissal instead of legal process is their right I suppose.

Ok, on my lunch now, so, are we expected to believe that the conservative party are all singing from the same hymn sheet on Brexit (LOL)
No Grandad but I think there is a separate thread about that.

Sadly Yggdrasil the right on GN don't do truth if it stops them attacking Corbyn. That's what these threads are set up for and the idea of veracity isn't in the plan.

This is not about the Tory party Yggdrasil ...

Of course it is Annie, if that's what some people want to talk about.

Trisher, you just don't get it or will not admit it.

It isn't that anyone doesn't get it Annie, they just don't agree with your opinion of "it".

Now I wonder how long until the backlash on all these very one sided arguments? For every action, including blackening the name of all Labour Party members and its leader, there is an equal and opposite reaction. It will come.

Ah now I see Primrose you don't actually know what a work of art is! Murals are works of art. Works of art can be temporary if the artist wishes. In fact some people think it is best if a work is temporary.

Sadly Yggdrasil the right on GN don't do truth if it stops them attacking Corbyn.
I think I've asked before (and not had an answer) about what or who constitutes the right on GN

Who are the right on GN who don't do truth?

It seems that would be anyone to the right of Corbyn - which encompasses a vast number of voters (and in the country as a whole), including moderate Labour voters

So probably the majority of the country, as many people voted Labour despite Corbyn and despite their misgivings about him.

Then supporting anti semitism is legal , interesting
No Annie freedom of speech and freedom of expression is legal, and very wisely protected by law.
Any criticism be it anti-semitic, religious, left or right wing can be made, but the work would remain, so people can make up their own mind.

No one complained about freedom of speech trisher. Corbyn is not known for protesting about the freedom of speech of artists, in fact he protested against controversial cartoons of the prophet Mohammed.
"The only way our community can survive is by showing mutual respect to each other. We demand that people show respect for each other's community, each other's faith and each other's religion."

The issue was around his comments on the mural. Not on the mural itself.

Why do you persist in misunderstanding me Primrose? I am discussing the right of a work of art to exist.You seem to have some sort of confused opinion- if it's anti-semitic it has to be banned, if it offends Muslims it doesn't matter. I don't really care what you think. I don't particularly care what Corbyn thinks- which some of you seem obsessed with. I care that art is being censored and it shouldn't be.

Day6 in your posting at 1:08am today (29/03/18) you make a number of assertions in regards to the Labour party and the democracy within it. I will not paste your extensive post as that action would make this posting far too long.

However, in the third paragraph of that post you ask "what power block are hard left Labour out to topple now? The rich by any chance? Where will the revolution begin?"

Well the answer to the above question is quite straightforward, as Labour policy is to strive for a more balanced and equal society with an end to poor housing, poor Health, zero hours employment contracts and the end of the gig economy. How is that to be achieved, by democratic means in the same way as the Labour party has been brought to change in recent years by way of members standing for election at branch, district, region, national and parliamentary levels.

Day6, in your fourth paragraph of the referred to posting, you state that the Labour party has been in slow decline since Jeremy Corbyn became its leader. In response to that I would wish to point out that in the period since Corbyn became leader that party has increased its national membership by over 400,000 with its total membership now above half a million.

Further to the above, at the last general election the Labour party increased the number of seats it holds in the House of Commons, causing the Conservative party to lose its overall majority. Therefore, Day6 I feel that many persons looking at those statistics would find it to be a very strange decline indeed.

Further down in the referred to post Day6 you speak of "The young, quixotic and radically left-wing grassroots members". However, as was referred to in forerunner to this thread, the average age of a Labour party member is fifty one, which is hardly "the young quixtoxic " member portrait you seem to try to paint your posting. However, that stated, left wing they may well be often with good reason, if working in today's zero hour society or gig economy.

Day6, in the latter part of your posting, you speak of Corbyn supporter's being a British Trotsky movement with no respect for Parliamentary democracy. The foregoing begs the question of why those members have stood for election at all levels, and in that democratically moved Labour party policy of the left, which is where the majority of current Labour party members wish it to be.

The foregoing is true democracy in action. It may not be everyone's idea of the Labour party they have always known, but I reject totally that the change has not been brought about by full democratic means.

trisher ...
How very noble of you, all this defence purely in the name of art!
If T May had made the same mistake Corbyn did regarding this mural, you would have been yelling for her sacking.

If all these middle class fifty somethings are really the new LP supporters they will not be ones working on zero hours contracts or struggling in any way.
Yes, the change has been done (at least on the surface) democratically, but it seems aggressive behaviour, bullying and harassment have been brought into play to get candidates in place.
Students have been heavily targeted on the Uni campus to join, well nothing new there of course but many lured not by the prospect of socialism but by the LP paying their fees
( at the last GE) well, it didn’t work did it? I doubt those same students will be voting for Corbyn at the next GE, particularly if there isn’t one for 3/4 years.

Lemongrove, in regard to your posting above at @20:47 today (29/03/18) could you please give some evidence of widespead bullying, agessive behaviour and harresment you refer to in the changes brought about in the Labour party.

Also in regard to people with an average age of 50 plus not working on restricted hours contracts or in the gig economy there are numerous examples of such persons engaged in that type of employment. Two of the prime examples is to be witnessed where following the closing of the Cabuury factury near Bristol and the BMC plant in Birmingham. The BBC made documentaries on both closures and what happened to employees following that.

Those documentaries may still be available on YouTube.

Being Plus 50 is the worst age to become unemployed and having to seek a new career

They can’t all be fifty something, middle class and unemployed/zero hours people Grandad !
There are supposed to be thousands of such people who have become members recently.
There are many, many complaints of bullying, aggressive behaviour and harrassment within the LP especially for female councillors and MP’s even.They have been reported in all kinds of media, online, newspapers, radio and tv.
I am not spending my evening searching them out as links
for you, but if you are interested then do a google search and see what comes up.