Did you see it ...no ?

No doubt about it the EU referendum was a big mistake but no excuse to rerun another Scottish one.

Yes Paddyann, I saw it and read about it on the BBC. I did not feel it lacked coverage.

One can't help being proud about passionate, peaceful demonstration, especially the sight of all those Saltires.

Like some others here, I'm proud of what Scotland is like today and I know we will miss the EU funding in so many areas.

Indyref was billed as a once-in-a-lifetime vote unless things changed and being dragged messily out of the EU is certainly a substantial change I would welcome a say on in future as I am quite ashamed at the way it is being handled in my name with no chance to hold anyone to account.

I do clearly remember being told a yes vote for independence would result in Scotland coming out of the EU ... some of my younger relatives voted no on that issue alone because they realised their opportunities and earning capacity would be squeezed.

The only thing against independence right now would be the Westminster government's attitude to Europe which is that we don't want to be in your club, but we want the benefits and we take umbrage at anything you do to protect the interests of all 27 loyal club members including Ireland (whose joint peaceful interests with NI we conventiently forgot all about and are now trying to fudge).

With that attitude, I suspect they'd have made life for independent Scots as difficult as possible in ....far worse than anything the EU is doing to the UK, or Spain is doing to Catalonia.

Independence will come. Sensible Scots are not going to want to be dominated by a Londoncentric party which thinks foodbanks, cruel sanctions, the bedroom clause and the rape clause make any kind of legislative sense unless you want to be a Victorian.

We just have to be a wee bitty patient while they get caught in their own knots.

As I said, I sometimes think I live in a completely different Scotland than SNP devotees.

Possibly you live in a much nicer one Jane10 with happier
Citizens.

campaigners for No (including Ruth Davidson and David Cameron) stated that the only way to be sure of staying in the EU was to vote No.That was untrue and they were misleading voters.

farnorth, I honestly don't think they deliberately misled people on that score. I think they genuinely believed what they were saying to be true. I have a feeling that if Cameron had foreseen the result of the EU ref he would never have called it. He was certain Remain would win.

Politics is funny stuff.

It used to be the case that if the Party of Independence won more than 50% of the Scottish Seats at a GE then they had the right to declare an Independent Nation. When this did happen that right was denied.
Granny23 I've never heard of that right before now. Where can I find the source of that interesting claim?

Possibly a more privileged one, Jane10, where you aren't worried by the bedroom tax or the DWP assessments and sanctions or the need for food banks.

If you, or yours, are coping with those and happy that all is fair then I'm sorry for my mistake.

Are you Scottish Jane10?

it did pop up on my news app earlier.
So yes.

Of course I'm Scottish! Born and bred, worked there all my life, pay my taxes and council taxes and watch our schools, police and living standards slip year by year!

Why is it that those working for an independent Scotland who hate everything to do with Westminster and can't wait to break free, seem incapable of understanding that some of us feel exactly the same about Brussels. We too hate being overruled and bullied by a far away parliament and long to break free just like you do!

That's brilliantly said, nigglynellie

yes Niggly so why cant those wo hate the EU see that Scots have a valid reason for hating westminster .85% of MP 's in westminster are ENGLISH ,they have no interest and usually no knowledge of anything north of the border yet can make laws and rules that WE have to abide by ...whether we like it or not.*jANE 10* Clearly you come from the more affluent part of the country ...I live in one of the most deprived areas of Scotland,jobs disappeared at an alarming rate with Thatcher and never came back .People live on the breadline ,zero hours contracts ,minimum wages .Lets look at Scotland pre SNP.PFI schools and hospitals many almost falling down already or with massive repair bills.Still owing millions in interest,the Holyrood building scandal ...cost a fortune more than we were originally told ,The Edinburgh tram fiasco ...one thats ONE council house built in Labours last year in power ,labour councils up and down the land corrupt and having sucj a hold over their voters they STILL got in ..and in some areas still are.North Lanarkshire for instance.
Anyone who doesn't see the new scottish government has made a massive difference is wearing blinkers or is a closet tory !1new bridge ,no PFI ,70,000 new houses ,1000 extra police ,free uni tuition,nurses better paid than in the rest of the UK ,cap on their wages lifted ,bedroom tax mitigated ,hospital waiting times best in the UK and more much more .Like you I have a nice lifestyle the difference it would seem is I WANT OTHERS to have a nice lifestyle too .That wont happen under WM .Look south and see.

I can only speak for myself Nigglynellie.

I do absolutely get it that you and a majority of British voters feel like that about the EU. And you are getting your way, are you not? It's democracy, right or wrong.

However, in most democracies you get the chance to change or moderate things after a few years if you discover that the original decision was wrong for you, or matters come to light which lead you to become impoverished or to feel unsafe.

As an example, I voted Lib Dem in a general election only to find the politicians I had hoped would be the voice of reason -- and the most socially-proactive -- sold out for a deputy's badge for their leader and then propped up the Conservatives, enabling them to bring in all sorts of harsh policies and to privatise Royal Mail.

The least well-off Scots I know -- bright young people from struggling families, older women on low and uncertain incomes, sick/disabled people who needed a spare room for wheelchairs/hoists etc -- have benefitted from nationalist policies which take a more humanitarian approach north of the border.

I'm not keen on the centralisation of emergency services (especially for rural areas), the Named Person scheme or the minimum pricing scheme for alcohol as it currently stands.

Like all governments, the SNP/Greens bloc have made mistakes and are very reluctant to admit these in the current climate of uncertainty, but at least they give it a go. They may need a term out of power to get their act together, but the proportional representation system in Scotland ensures that a much more diverse range of views can be elected.

Scotland, overall, has benefitted from being a member of the EU, except in terms of fishing rights and these should be the one certainty of Brexit.... but who knows? Not even the Tories, I suspect.

All Scottish nationalists are not necessarily SNP supporters, but many of us are in dismay at the constant bashing of that party, even when it gets on with the day job and sticks to its principles.

A couple of national tabloids are particularly frightening in their intolerant attitude to anyone who suggests there may be downsides to Brexit. The demonisation of senior politicians, peacemakers, judges and businesspeople has been lamentable.

In contrast, I hope GN remains a place where we can discuss and disagree on our futures, ask questions and share information without lumping everyone together on one side or the other.

Wow paddyann, a predictable reaction from you !

Two, once in a (human) lifetime referendums, In one, Scotland voted to stay, the other the UK, voted to go. Which ever way they went they would both have had to be respected, and are being, including the once in a lifetime bit! What's there not to understand?!

Certainly, the Scottish referendum was billed as a once in a generation opportunity (which I'm sure they now regret) but I don't think anyone realised what a mess we'd be in on other fronts by now.

As I said, that's democracy and I do accept it, but I will never give up hope for the future.

I am to be robbed of EU citizenship and the benefits thereof, but there are only so many times you can drag shackled people over the cliff edge and you risk stoking resentment if you don't leave us a wee glimmer of hope in our lifetimes.

However, I cannot find as much evidence of the Brexit vote being once in a generation, mainly because it was only advisory in a legal sense.

Brexit is, of course, one of the biggest issues of our generation and others.

All the more reason why it should not be down to a split, infighting minority Tory administration to deny consideration to those worst affected; to attempt to thwart many sensible amendments and a full democratic vote at Westminster on the final deal.

See, not simple or straightforward at all SUS

Thanks Jane10 - I wasn’t sure because I’ve sussed out that some GNetters living in Scotland are not Scottish by birth. Just trying to get my head round it.

Jane10 Who do you blame for declining standards? UK wide austerity, bad management by the Scottish Government, a combination of both, or something else.

Selfishly for myself, I am well pleased that the Scottish Income Tax changes mean that I will be paying no tax at all and DH will pay a small amount at 19% rather than 20%.

Granny23 Still waiting for an answer to my question.

Declining standards aren't helped by lowering taxes. Nice for you though Granny23

The referendum ceased to be advisory when D.C. made it clear, with the backing of all sides of the H of C that whatever the vote was it would be acted upon. M.P's voted to this effect! Also that the result would be 'first past the winning post'! again with the support of parliament! Of course they never ever dreamt they'd lose else they might have been a little less cavalier with these promises!!

Nigglynellie, you won/ you win.

Over the cliff we go.

The views of the majority of Scots and Northern Irish count for nothing.

Does it really help matters having our noses rubbed in it?

You'd think DC (and the rest of Parliament) would have learnt a lesson from the Scottish referendum, where he never ever dreamt the result would be anywhere close to Yes.

(Clearly Theresa May still didn't get it when she called her strong and stable election.)

For Jangran99