Unintended consequences of brexit

IMO the question asked to leavers regarding the benefits of Brexit were answered after the result of the referendum.

When I and many others gave reasons for voting leave, the changes we stated we voted for, were the benefits that we believed no longer being an EU member would bring.

Is there any point in reiterating those reasons? No, because
some who wanted to remain will rubbish what leavers believe will be the long term benefits of Brexit.

IMO your post regrading the different focus of remainers and leavers is spot on Joelsnan. It certainly explains the difference in opinion that Mr. S. and I had and why he voted to remain and I voted to leave.

Joelsnan, Smileless and lemongrove .

If you actually want to learn about the realities of this situation, please watch that video. It would be 7 and a half minutes very well spent.

You may say that the caller is just "thinking about himself" because he could be put out of business, but his business and others like it are vital to the UK economy and what damages that trade would damage us all.

In my opinion Joelsnan, your opinion of remainers reason for voting leave is an almighty assumption, didn’t everyone vote for what they thought was best for themselves & the rest of the country.? Only time will tell if we fair better as a country out of the EU.The vote was a huge leap of faith.The next Generation of GNetters will no doubt be praising or decrying the descion that was made .

Quite probably off topic, but on the Eurostar to Brussels on Friday evening I felt how close we have become in so many respects to mainland Europe, there were ( being an inveterate people watcher and as far as I could guess) weekenders like us, young families perhaps visiting grandparents, weekly commuters on the way home, people who travel regularly and at the drop of a hat between countries. It just felt so right
The prospect of the return to green or red customs channels, increased bureaucracy and faff just exiting or returning to the U.K. filled me with dread. And that is just on a personal level.
My heart sinks at the prospect of our insular, “backward looking” future.

Bridgeit, your response to Joelsnan about an "almighty assumption" is no different to the almighty assumptions made by remainer's, on the reason's why leave voters decided to Brexit.

As a number of people have said, "only time will tell". The judgement of the future gransnetters on either the remain or leave posters, bothers me less, than sadly seeing what I and other sense will be a gaming judgement of history on the EU, as it leads 27 nations to economic, social and political extremes and poverty in the name of a United Nations of Europe.

Please read damming rather gaming in the above post. Spell checker switched it. I did not check.

MawBroom. This is such a nostalgic, looking back approach to change that you imagine Brexit will bring.

Whatever border controls are needed if you want to travel to Brussels you will still be able to do so, for work or pleasure.
The buzz, will still be there.

The future of the Country, our Country as a whole in the twenty first century is more than, much more than having to use a passport to travel to Brussels. This is something you know of course.

Nandalot
Yes, as a remainer I find the economic effects of the Brexit process to be alarming and depressing but I value other elements of the European community equally: its protection of human rights, ( or red tape as some leavers would probably call it); its investment in cultural and educational projects ( which I fear a national government might let go by the wayside); grants to science; collaborative projects like Galileo. I value standing together with others so that we can tackle problems together and support the weak. I do not think you can rely on America as an ally. Look how Trump is treating Canada.

With reference to your points on collaboration, the U.K. Have always collaborated both academically and technologically with other European and indeed worldwide countries, Concorde was started collaboratively well before we joined the EU for just one instance.
We will still continue to support European countries if required, just think about the two world wars, did we need the EU to stand up against tyranny? Weren't we the strongest force against this when other European countries were lacking? If you look at recent history, actually the EU has rarely stood as one to support injustices throughout the world the UK has relied on NATO partners in these matters (rightly or wrongly).
The majority of Human Rights laws adopted by the EU were derived from UK policies fought for by our unions and on the whole we still are the best within the union in their application.
Despite naysayers, the U.K. does have a good reputation in the wider world. If you travel you will nearly always find people asking how to get to UK, see building projects developed and built by UK industry, international schools staffed mainly with Brits, UK shops and goods, the list can go on. We should be developing international relationships without the constraints of 26 or 27 other countries deciding if this can be done.
I have this analogy:
Trading in the EU is like going to a furniture shop and seeing a lovely 3piece suite that you would like to buy. Before you can do this you have to ask permission from all the neighbours in your street even though they have different tastes in furnishing and decor to you, if you are very lucky you might get it or they may decide collectively that your next door neighbor should buy it.

At least Joelsnan's assumption about those who voted to remain is polite Bridgeit unlike some of the insulting characteristics that have been attributed by some to leavers over the past 2 years.

"Didn't everyone vote for what they thought was best for themselves & the country?" Well said Bridgeit, of course we did. Even if you totally disagree with the reasons why some voted the way they did, no one should suggest that votes were cast for purely selfish reasons. Such a suggestion is just as easily applied to either side.

I like that analogy Joelsnan; very good.

This is something you know of course.

Allygran How do you know that MawBroon knows that The future of the Country, our Country as a whole in the twenty first century is more than, much more than having to use a passport to travel to Brussels - a vague kind of wishful thinking.

How does anyone know what the future will hold?

If you check out that short video, and listen to the van driver, Ciaron Donovan, you may get a glimpse of what the future could hold if we leave the EU.

If you are not willing to listen to the conversation Ciaron had with James O'Brien, because James is a Remainer, then try listening to the conversation the same man had the following day with brexit supporting presenter Nick Ferrari and arch brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/ring-rees-mogg/van-driver-who-went-viral-takes-on-jacob-rees-mogg/

For those with a short attention span, this is only five minutes long, but that is all the time it takes for a man who knows exactly what he is talking about to explain why it is essential for us to remain in the single market and customs union, and to expose the arrogance and ignorance of JRM.

Jalimal, although no one can say for certain what the future holds and this sort of question cannot be answered in any detail, their is one thing that I am convinced of and that is the future of this country does depends on a lot more than a passport. As we have all been discussing.

Varian you throw around these emotive terms "arrogance", "ignorance", "short attention span", as though you have the right to judge those things in others. There is a word for this sort of attitude to others, and you demonstrate it when you use words as a weapon to denigrate others. I have no intention of looking at your five minute long video, because of your attitude.

Sadly not nostalgic Allygran which I always take to mean a fond looking back and thinking more about it, it is not just the nitty gritty of the passport and customs issue which seem so artificial in today’s world but having studied in Europe, AC worked or exhibited in Europe, family and friends in Europe I am aware of a blending of national identity in our children’s generation, a seamless “European” identity not the parochial insularity of many in the U.K.
Brexit is taking us back to a past which for many young professional people is misleading,even unrecognisable.

The Brexiteers know what the future holds, they keep telling us it was all discussed two years ago, so they don't need to bother mentioning it again.
The James O B video is excellent Varian.

A missed opportunity to learn. You could have watched a five minute video instead of attacking the messenger.

That last post was directed at someone who turns away from evidence.

joelsnan
the eu will collapse or at least fragment
More or less what Owen Jones was inferring in his twitter rant today. He's also blaming Angela Merkel for all eu's ills, not the eu as an institution.

Sarah Woolaston MP is a former GP is the respected chairperson of the health select committee. An independent-minded MP who cannot be bought off, she works across the political divide.

When it comes to the details of Brexit and how it might affect the NHS and research industry, she will not be afraid to speak out. Wollaston is no Europhile. She initially supported Brexit but switched to Remain during the EU referendum campaign. Despite her Euroskepticism, she will not troop through the lobbies unquestioningly. She has already raised concerns about powers to push through changes to legislation without full parliamentary scrutiny.

www.politico.eu/list/brexit-40-troublemakers-ranking/sarah-wollaston/

Sarah Woolaston is an example of an intelligent person, who at first considered voting Leave, but took the trouble to think through what that vote could lead to and then decided that it would be in the best interests of her constituents and the country for us to Remain in the EU.

Allygran1 your response to other posters & how they choose to deliver their opinions thoughts & Ideas is becoming staggeringly & increasingly arrogant & dictatorial yours is not the only way or the correct way or the desired way ,could you please bear this in mind when offering up your thoughts on other GNetters posts, thank you.

varian we're LBC ( James O'Brien) fans too, though we didn't hear those interviews.
Another example of ideals vs practicalities..

I ? James O B he talks such a lot of sense. Unlike Nigel slime Farage .

capx.co/forget-brexit-the-eu-may-be-on-the-brink-of-collapse/

An interesting perspective

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/11/germany-france-uk-foreign-investment-brexit-ey?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Another view