Unintended consequences of brexit

Ha yes Jura2, that’s a lovely thought,my how times have changed, wonder what she & all the other veterans make of it all??

I agree that there is unfortunately now a great rift in sections of the U.K population.
What I still find sad is when people - usually living in a poor or underprivileged area - are asked about their reasons for supporting Brexit and they give a headline reason which has been shown to be a lie.
I have no problem with people having a different opinion but would rather they had one which is true.

I think Ag puts everything very clearly and concisely in language that is simple to understand and certainly better than I ever could.

I really think you're insulting your own intelligence there, nellie.

She reminds me mostly of a hyperactive sales manager trying to rally a conference hall full of company minions when the product they're trying to sell is complete rubbish.

Even to the bloody inspirational quotes.

Agree Welshwife, it’s hard to get any reliable details.Many factions have their own agendas. That is why we should have waited until we had at least the basic facts & effects .

nellie - all Ag does is quote what others have written. At great length.
For all we know of her own opinion it could be Remain.
Welshwife - we're now living in the NE, mostly LP supporters in the past, where the majority voted for Brexit.
When I get to know some of them better I'm going to ask them why they voted Leave.

I would agree that Brexit has turned out to be a complex matter with issues being brought forward in the last two years that were never referred to during the referendum campaigns. However, I believe there is still one area that may well affect virtually everyone in Britain that has not even at this late stage been well discussed.

The road haulage industry is one of the largest commercial sectors in Britain and in recent years many of Britain's retailers including the supermarkets we all use have come to rely on what is known as JIT (just in time) delivery schedules. The foregoing means that retailers hold little or no stock in their shops or distribution centres relying instead on daily time scheduled deliveries to those outlets.

By example to the above, fresh produce from European Union producers travels directly from those suppliers, at present seamlessly through the ports and on to the distribution centres on time scheduled arrivals. It is then sorted and within a few hours, it is moved again onto the retail outlets within further time scheduled deliveries.

The vast majority of Britons delivery systems are run on the above lines. However, should delays begin to occur at the ports following Brexit then shortages in Britains supermarkets and other retail outlets will in all likelihood very quickly occur.

A change to JIT delivery systems would be very costly to introduce and certainly could not be brought forward quickly. Therefore, as no solution to remaining in the customs union has been acceptable within the ranks of our own government let alone the European Union, it could well be that shortages in our supermarkets could be one of the first noticeable issues that the general public become aware of on the commencement of Brexit without a customs agreement.

Therefore, for anyone to state that leaving the European Union will have little effect on the average person in Britain is in my opinion very far from the true perspective of what may very well happen.

A van driver who challenged Jacob Rees-Mogg live on the radio over his claims about what the UK leaving the Single Market and Customs Union after Brexit has expressed his fears about the damage that border queues will have on his business.

Ciaran Donovan, who runs an express delivery service transporting goods across Europe, went toe to toe with the North East Somerset MP on LBC over his claims that the UK could adopt Swiss style border controls once Britain leaves the EU.

In a column for the Mirror , Mr Donovan explained why he decided to tackle Mr Rees-Mogg on the issues. He also expressed his support for a second referendum on the final Brexit deal once it has been agreed by the Government.

He wrote: “My name is Ciaran, and I have over a decade of hands-on knowledge in express and customs-free movements of commercial goods in and out of Europe.This week I challenged Jacob Rees-Mogg live on the radio because he is making misleading claims about what leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union will mean for small business owners like me.

“For the last twelve years I have established my own European Express Transport Business, mainly transporting for “just in time” supply chains. This includes collecting components for the automotive industry all over Europe and delivering them to 24-hour production lines back in the UK."

www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/van-driver-tackled-somerset-mp-1626997

MaizieD I really get up your nose don't I!!

Brexiteers appear to have no realistic answers about making border crossings seamless after Brexit.

Not just mine. Ally. You're marmite.

That means I must be doing something right. I'll up the post's.

Jura, don't mock Vera too much, she was very relevant and inspirational in her day.. I know that is irrelevant now, even something to deride, but to my parents she and others like her lifted their wartime spirits no end and that must of been a good thing and for that she deserves respect

we're now living in the NE, mostly LP supporters in the past, where the majority voted for Brexit.

I'd be interested to hear their reactions, Fennel. I know a few Leavers but we've never discussed it in any depth, in fact, we've never really discussed it; their comments on the EU were mainly of the 'ruled' by unelected bureaucrats' and 'we managed before and we'll manage after' variety; no detail. One is a flaming racist...

For the most part the people I know voted Remain. And I'm afraid they mostly fit the voter profile analyses; the better educated they are the more likely they are to have voted Remain. They're mostly age 55+

I'll up the post's.

If you like talking to an empty room or an echo chamber, that's fine.

Perhaps you could do something about apostrophising plurals, too...

Jura, don't mock Vera too much,

This is part of our problem, I feel. Complete misinterpretation of people's words. Jura hasn't 'mocked' Vera Lynn at all. That you see it as that explains a good deal of your interpretation of the EU, to me.

Lars Karlsson, former director of the World Customs Organisation and the author of an EU-commissioned paper on Brexit and the Irish border, suggests in an interview with E&T that politics and ideology are sole impediments to finding an acceptable solution to one of the thorniest issues facing the UK.
Creating a frictionless “smart border” between the UK and the Republic of Ireland is “perfectly possible and doable” within as little as two years, the author of an EU-published research paper examining this aspect of Brexit has told E&T.
Lars Karlsson, former director of the World Customs Organisation and deputy director general of Swedish Customs, struck an optimistic tone about a subject that has vexed policy analysts and risks becoming a continual stumbling block on the path towards a beneficial deal between Britain and the remaining 27 EU member states.
Karlsson was commissioned by the European Parliament to write his study, titled ‘Smart Border 2.0’, and says he remains confident that there are neither technological nor legal barriers to creating a border with almost no noticeable difference from the ’soft’ frontier that currently exists between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic.
He told E&T he wanted to “put to one side the sensitive politics of whether people like Brexit or not” and had focused his research solely on practicalities.
Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR), GPS tracking, radio-frequency identification, specialised smartphone apps and ePassports would each have a role to play in the ultra-high-tech invisible border envisaged by Karlsson, who recently gave evidence at a parliamentary select committee at which one Brexiteer told him his viewpoints seemed “like a breath of fresh air”.

From his home in Sweden, Karlsson explained: “I’ve taken the stand of confining myself to the practical side and the technical side of it [Brexit], of what happens if a border appears.
“If one country has a referendum and decides that more than 50 per cent want to leave something, then this conundrum comes along. How can you solve it?
“That doesn’t mean that I don’t understand that it’s very sensitive, this Northern Ireland situation. People also bring up, in the discussions and dialogue, this issue that if there’s infrastructure then people could destroy it. Well, yes, they could. Of course they could, just like they could destroy a camera in central London that’s there to surveil for security or terrorism.
“So yes, that’s correct. This is the consequence, and there’s no possible way in international customs law today, including for the EU, to have a situation where there’s no consequence of being inside or outside the customs territory. That’s not a political issue; it’s a technical issue.”
A simplified and fully electronic customs declaration system and new voluntary ‘trusted trader’ system were advocated by Karlsson in his ‘2.0’ report. He maintained that it would be possible to avoid having to maintain a manned border with people physically checking goods if leading UK and the Republic of Ireland politicians were to come to an agreement about this. Any necessary checks could be moved away from the border and new joint arrangements around data could enable cross-jurisdictional cooperation.
Karlsson would also like to see the UK make more use of authorised economic operator programmes, where companies that meet compliance and security standards receive trading benefits across borders.
He has even suggested that, in terms of developing a satisfactory system for trade and customs, both the island of Ireland and Great Britain are in a uniquely advantageous position compared with other European countries because of the simple geographical fact that they are surrounded by sea. They now have an opportunity to create a smart border that would be an example to the rest of the world, he said.
“From a customs and trade perspective it’s not bad to be an island, let’s put it that way,” he remarked.

eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2018/04/ultra-hi-tech-invisible-irish-border-perfectly-doable-ex-customs-chief-says/

Clearly there are ways to control goods and the movement of people with modern technology. It seems it would be cutting edge and move all custom's control into the twenty first century.
The technology is available.

Mostlyharmless "Too true Bridgeit. It’s too complex an issue for people to understand fully (as allyg shows us daily)."

What I show us as often as is needed in response to your post and that of other anti Brexit posters, is the other side to the pessimistic, propaganda of those who did not vote leave. Countering, negative propaganda, is a essential. You treat leave voters as if we thought it would be a walk in the park, we didn't, we are smarter than you give us credit for, we are braver and more optimistic with a view of the hard work, that will be needed to extract ourselves from the tentacles of an insidious organisation we have come to know as the EU . We believe in the future for our grandchildren, great grandchildren, and that is not in the clutches of the EU. The future is in a free market access to trade and business. Restrictive, protectionist EU policy's are a thing from another time another century. The EU is a collapsing system with many country's turning on the unelected eurocratic bureaucracy that ties them in and hooks them to the system, as we discussed yesterday and the day before.

We have hope, optimism, reality and understanding that change is not easy, but we are ready and prepared, as our Banking system is, our Government is having got the "Bill" through the House. Our laws once taken over by the EU are right now being amended, adjusted, or altered and brought back. It looks every day as though the there will be no special deal, no "cherry picking" the White paper draft haveing been rejected by the EU negotiator, we move towards a no deal Brexit. An intransigent EU, clinging to a system that does not work and refusing to adapt, adjust and amend, therefore it cannot survive, since adapting is a mechanism for survival, and the EU is demonstrating that it will not adapt.

You missed this bit off, Ally:

However, he acknowledged that a fully operational smart border is not currently in use anywhere in the world and that the Irish government has expressed scepticism about his ideas.

You know what I think? I think that the Irish would say "No way!"

Quite frankly, no-one but a complete idiot would try to implement a system in such a sensitive situationwhich a) doesn't even exist yet and b) has undergone absolutely no testing (because of a) )

And he has completely failed to explain what would be done about live animals crossing the border. The EU rules require that live animals being imported into the EU (so that'll be from NI to ROI) must undergo physical checks.

nigglynellie, you are quite right to point out that the values and the spirit of a country at war are synonymous with the name of Vera Lynn. Jura was clearly mocking and using Vera Lynn's name to what he or she though would invoke an image of a backward looking Britain.

Jura Brexit is about the future, our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren and onward. It is about the twenty first century not the last century. That is what leave voters were voting for. So Vera kept this Countries spirit's up bad times, and it's fighting men, who fought to free Europe from oppression only to see a different type of oppression hidden in an EU using capitalist controls over 27 Country's. The freedom has gone into "ever closer union", how insidious. All those men and women died and sacrificed, and you for the sake of being clever Jura, mock the women who epitomises that time in British and European History and thereby the men and women who defended Europe, a place you were born. Some things are a no go area Jura and Vera Lynn is one of those iconic people, that you should avoid using to make your negative point.

Vera Lynn's songs about fighting the far right are more relevant than ever.

Maizie got it so right. NO I was not mocking Vera, but those, like most Brexiters, who ark about a nationalist past.

Because, as you rightly say, it is about the future, of our children, granchildren and beyond - and the country we truly love and admire, part of a strong team in Europe, not annexed to Trump’s, or Pence’s, USA.

MaizieD. Why is it that you either have to call people stupid or idiots, when you don't agree.

This chap is a professional, what is it that you don't think would work? There has to be a first, for everything, I am sure that being professionals the people who implement the system would plan to do viability testing. I don't think they are going to hammer up some camera's and put a few drones up and walk away. This is on a totally different scale or type to anything thus far used. It will bring together different types of currently in use technology, smart phone on line registering, trusted trader agreements, ultra scanners for goods.

No doubt I can find something about live animals and EU and of course British regs as they will be on Brexit. That is a valid point.

I took Jura’s comment as tongue in cheek reference to the war spirt, Vera Lynn etc.
I thought men were from Mars & women were from Venus
It now seems some GNetters are also for another planet!

Yes and a very bitchy planet, if the comments aimed at Allygran are anything to go by.

Allygrans posts are not aimed at the person, but at the comments, pity others can)t do the same.

I have no idea what ‘ark’ means Jura but nobody here is talking of either the last war, empire, or anything else.
It may be a good time to remind you though, whilst the Swiss sat on their bottoms during the war,Britain had a very hard time defending parts of Europe.

I think Bridgeit you and perhaps others were born after the war, perhaps well after, and of course Vera and others were history and not relevant. To those of us were war babies or even pre war babies, like the war itself in which my father was killed before I was born, these people are far more real. As Alyg said, they are off limits.