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Regret it Brexit Part 2

(360 Posts)
Bridgeit Fri 25-May-18 19:35:10

Really good thoughts and Opinions on this topic.
Be good to just carry on girls

nigglynellie Wed 27-Jun-18 15:16:27

Absolutely Lazigirl!! or even several months ago when negotiations started in earnest!! Why now?!! Project fear? Just another desperate attempt by remain to scupper brexit ?T Blair and co? Who knows, but that's how lots of people will see it!!

varian Wed 27-Jun-18 17:24:42

Lazigirl thinks it's a pity that many of these concerns weren't flagged up by major businesses and manufacturers prior to the referendum.

These issues were flagged up by many business people and economists before the referendum but were dismissed by the right-wing tabloids as this mythical "project fear".

Of course many of the people who issued the warnings were experts and Mr Gove told us all that "Brtish people have had enough of experts"

Lazigirl Wed 27-Jun-18 17:48:04

You are right Varian that some economists and many business people did in fact point out the negative effects of leaving the EU, and in a poll 80% of CBI Members wanted to Remain. I just wish individual Companies that people can relate to, had made a bigger noise about it, but you are probably also right that people don't want to listen to "experts" anymore, and no one wants to believe boring stuff like "evidence" nowadays, if it doesn't chime with their own views.

varian Wed 27-Jun-18 19:47:39

Britain’s chief financial watchdog has warned that contracts worth trillions of pounds between UK and European Union banks remain at risk of collapse following Brexit, after Brussels’ failure to implement protective legislation.

In a warning to EU officials that time is running out before next March to devise rules for EU banks, the Bank of England’s financial policy committee (FPC) said £29tn worth of contracts could be declared void.

Derivatives contracts, which provide banks and corporations with protection from interest rate rises, could come to an end without fresh legislation from the UK and EU, the committee said in its latest quarterly health check on Britain’s financial services industry.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/27/brexit-bank-contracts-worth-trillions-at-risk-says-finance-watchdog

Fennel Wed 27-Jun-18 20:00:37

Lazigirl wrote -
"people don't want to listen to "experts" anymore, and no one wants to believe boring stuff like "evidence" nowadays, if it doesn't chime with their own views."
A few weeks ago we listened to an LBC broadcast where James O'Brien challenged a caller who had a fixed 'belief' that he couldn't justify with evidence. I think J O'B went too far, he got quite worked up himself, but the poor caller had no idea what he was getting at.

varian Wed 27-Jun-18 20:18:06

I agree,*Fennel*. James O'Brien sometimes goes over the top and doesn't give his callers enough time to reply, but I do agree with almost everything he says.

MaizieD Thu 28-Jun-18 12:24:39

I just don't understand why these Brexiters are recommending setting up businesses in the EU (Lord Ashcroft), moving investment out of the UK (John Redwood) or setting up EU based offices (J Rees-Mogg)

Here's Lord Ashcroft:

www.conservativehome.com/platform/2018/06/lord-ashcroft-special-report-malta-makes-a-strong-case-to-host-the-eu-outposts-of-british-companies-after-brexit.html

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1012266772907642886

If they were Remainers I suspect that they would be accused of doing down the UK... As it is, they want to leave the EU but they seem to be making sure that they personally don't actually suffer any ill effects. Traitors? wink

varian Thu 28-Jun-18 17:32:11

If we leave the EU and the economy takes a further nosedive and taxes have to be raised, it would be really good to tax the leavers. Why should the rest of us suffer??? I wonder how many would come forward and admit to voting leave if they were going to have to pay?

Smileless2012 Thu 28-Jun-18 18:01:08

Well I'd "admit to voting leave" varian but what a ridiculous suggestion. Should people who don't have children pay reduced taxes as some of their money goes to education? Should those with private health care and no intentions of using the NHS also make a reduced contribution?

"Why should the rest of us suffer" that is what is wrong with this country and has been exhibited more than ever since the referendum the 'them and us' mentality.

This is our country. Our's, our children's and grandchildren's futures are what matters and that's what we should be coming together to work for.

So, if heaven forbid the vote to leave is overturned, we stay within the EU and member countries economies nose dive, would you as a remainer step forward, admit to how you voted and pay additional taxes. After all, "why should the rest of us suffer".

varian Thu 28-Jun-18 18:10:59

You seem to believe in the "brexit bonus" fallacy smileless. We have already lost billions and if it goes ahead taxes would have to rise to pay for it. Put down your copy of the Daily Express and try looking at the facts. Just the threat of brexit has already cost each family £900.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/22/brexit-vote-cost-uk-mark-carney-bank-of-england

suzied Thu 28-Jun-18 18:30:47

Well leavers will be paying as it is the more deprived leave voting areas that will suffer with loss of jobs, industries etc. The wealthy leavers will be ok though as they will benefit from the lack of regulation and off shore investments.

Smileless2012 Fri 29-Jun-18 14:24:34

No varian I don't believe in the "brexit fallacy* and I've never posted anything to suggest that I do. Now, why don't you answer my question?

Fennel Fri 29-Jun-18 17:17:50

Smileless - I know you addressed the question to Varian, but it applies to me too.
I would certainly 'pay up'. Bu I would still be cursing David Cameron for the whole mess and suing him for compensation.

varian Fri 29-Jun-18 17:38:33

Unfortunately, even if at this late stag,e sense could prevail and we were somehow able to remain in the EU, a huge amount of damage has already been done.

Quite apart from the damage to the coherence of our society, and our international reputation, our economy has already suffered. The sheer waste of all the time and money spent on brexit, when there are so many other problems being ignored, the lack of investment caused by the threat of brexit, the number of businesses relocating or opening offices elsewhere in the EU - all of these mean that there will be a cost.

No doubt the leavers would blame it on the EU and those who voted to remain, but I would be proud to say I was a Remainer, even though all we can now hope to achieve is damage limitation.

Lazigirl Fri 29-Jun-18 17:59:08

Well said Varian.

Smileless2012 Fri 29-Jun-18 18:22:32

I am proud to admit that I voted leave varian and I would still like to know if heaven forbid we remain in the EU and our economy takes a nose dive if you as a remainer would think it fair that only you and other remainers would be prepared to carry the burden of taxation?

You asked a question and I answered it. Perhaps you could extend the same courtesy to me.

Fennelsmile.

varian Fri 29-Jun-18 18:45:07

Yes

Smileless2012 Fri 29-Jun-18 19:02:47

That's good to know varian.

Allygran1 Fri 29-Jun-18 23:44:27

" varian Wed 27-Jun-18 19:47:39
Britain’s chief financial watchdog has warned that contracts worth trillions of pounds between UK and European Union banks remain at risk of collapse following Brexit, after Brussels’ failure to implement protective legislation.

In a warning to EU officials that time is running out before next March to devise rules for EU banks, the Bank of England’s financial policy committee (FPC) said £29tn worth of contracts could be declared void.

Derivatives contracts, which provide banks and corporations with protection from interest rate rises, could come to an end without fresh legislation from the UK and EU, the committee said in its latest quarterly health check on Britain’s financial services industry".

Try this version varian:

Ian King
Business presenter

"There are two ways to look at the warning from the European Banking Authority that some financial institutions are unprepared for a hard Brexit and need to be.
One is that this is a straightforward, common-sense piece of advice.
The possibility of a hard Brexit is certainly increasing as the Irish border issue, in particular, looms ever larger as a stumbling block. Supporters will argue that the EBA, which seeks to promote financial stability across the EU, is merely pointing that out and reminding the sector that even a transition deal is by no means guaranteed.
The other is that this is a cynical intervention calculated at undermining the City and Canary Wharf and at persuading banks and other financial services institutions to move more of their staff away from the UK to Paris, Frankfurt, Dublin and other locations.
:: Banks not prepared for no-deal Brexit
The EBA will say that, in reminding banks that they must have sufficient numbers of staff at their new operations to ensure continuity of operations after Britain leaves the EU in March next year, it is merely repeating the warnings of others.
For instance, this warning comes just days after Joachim Wuermeling, a member of the board of the Bundesbank, Germany's influential central bank, urged German banks to better prepare for a hard Brexit.
Yet the EBA's advice does rather read and feel like an effort to chivvy banks into moving more staff out of Britain and particularly because it contradicts what the Bank of England has been saying recently.
The Bank, which was not commenting on the EBA statement on Monday, made clear at the end of March that "it would be difficult", ahead of Brexit, "for all financial institutions to have completed all of the necessary steps required to mitigate the risks to the provision of financial services in the EU and the UK".

The Bank of England has told financial services firms there is no need to panic on the prospect of a hard Brexit
To that end Sam Woods, the Bank's deputy governor for prudential regulation and chief executive of the Bank's Prudential Regulation Authority, wrote to banks and other financial institutions, making this observation: "The Government has committed to bring forward legislation, if necessary, to create a temporary permissions regime to allow relevant firms to continue their activities in the UK for a limited period after withdrawal. In the unlikely event that the Withdrawal Agreement is not ratified, this provides confidence that a back-stop will be available."
That was a pretty clear signal to the financial services sector that, while it was important for them to prepare for Brexit, they need not panic about the prospect of Britain leaving the EU without a transition deal.
The EBA's statement on Monday looks like an attempt to undermine the Bank's previous advice and one has to wonder why.
Perhaps it is because it is some City institutions increasingly suspect the EU's own financial regulators are stalling on negotiations.
As Miles Celic, chief executive of The CityUK, the main industry body, said: "Financial services firms in the UK have had contingency plans in place for months.
"Our industry has had a constructive, ongoing dialogue with regulators and government. We have worked together to minimise the risk of disruption to clients and the wider economy.
"The single most helpful thing European authorities can now do right now is to engage urgently and seriously with the issue of contract continuity. The lack of progress by EU regulators on this vital issue is the most pressing item on the agenda."

If this has not been a deliberate attempt by the EBA to undermine the City, it is perhaps just a remarkable coincidence that Monday also saw a separate warning from the European Central Bank to banks looking to set up hubs in the eurozone that, if they did not have their licence applications in by the end of the month, it could not guarantee they would have their authorisations in place by the time of Brexit".

news.sky.com/story/european-banking-authoritys-brexit-warning-is-nothing-of-the-sort-11416615

Highly fallacious stuff coming out of an unprepared EU Banking system. The UK Banking system is ready for Brexit.

I said I would not post on this thread again, but I just can't let misleading story's like this go unchallenged. Guardian or no Guardian.
Don't bother posting back to me on here Varian, I won't be responding on Brexit 2.

varian Sat 30-Jun-18 13:01:58

Nearly 20 banks have committed to launching new European Union hubs in Frankfurt since the Brexit vote, according to German officials. The economy minister for the state of Hesse, where Frankfurt is situated, said the city was confident it would attract more, with another 60 firms yet to decide on additional EU headquarters. “We’ve got 18 entities... that have committed,” Tarek Al-Wazir said.​

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brexit-latest-banks-commit-frankfurt-germany-eu-london-goldman-sachs-a8294651.html

An unintended consequence of brexit, surely, which need never have happened had we not ever started this brexit nonsense.

(I post for the benefit of all GNetters, as I have done for years, not for the benefit of one new poster who thinks it's all about her - what unbelievable vanity!!!)

nigglynellie Sat 30-Jun-18 13:32:50

Who is this unspeakably 'vain' poster? Please, do tell?!!

varian Sat 30-Jun-18 14:39:13

Anyone who writes "don't bother posting back to me" seems unaware that post are to everyone who wants to read them. "I won't be responding" sounds a bit like "I'm going home and taking the ball with me"

Smileless2012 Sat 30-Jun-18 16:25:48

If you're going to quote Allygran varian you should do so in full otherwise the true meaning of what was posted can be lost.

Allygran "Don't bother posting back to me on here Varian, I wont be responding on Brexit 2".

varian Sat 30-Jun-18 17:29:08

None of us post to one individual. Posts are for anyone who chooses to read them. None of us need permission from anyone else to post or refrain from posting.

This is Gransnet. Most of us are grownups.

varian Sat 30-Jun-18 18:48:10

Arch-Brexiteer Michael Gove physically tore up Theresa May’s new Brexit customs plans during a meeting earlier this week as tensions inside the Prime Minister’s cabinet spiralled out of control ahead of next weeks showdown at Chequers.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=gove+tears+up&oq=gove+tears+up&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.4119j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Aw, diddums, "it's just not fair when I don't get my own way."

Some of those who intend to protest against Trump's visit intend to fly a "Trump baby" shaped balloon over London on thew day of the visit. Perhaps we should have a "Gove baby" balloon to go with it.