Regret it Brexit Part 2

I voted for my parliamentary candidate on the basis that they were anti Brexit. I did not vote for Corbyn, he wasn’t on my ballot paper. This government has U turned on their manifesto 10 times so far - this makes them big liars no?

mostlyharmless Sun 03-Jun-18 10:16:23
Government report on the consequences of no deal Brexit reported in The Sunday Times.

Anyone who has worked for a large organisation that is "managing change", or forward planning, has to do contingency planning. It would astonish me if the Government had not done this. The worst and best scenario's are always imagined and considered, with the worst being the most difficult because of unknown factors and consequences, and must always look extreme.

Hospitals, have the same sort of contingency plans, as do all other large organisations or institutions.. A Nation will have lots of contingency plans. I imagine they have one for epidemics, a worst scenario would be that we would for a start need thousands of coffins. What sort of funeral services would be in operation if any, what stress on the Coroners Officers for autopsy's, issuing death certificates etc, when thousands of dead a day are having to be disposed of. How do you reconcile religious beliefs, enforce the law with regard to deaths with a National emergency of that scale and so on and so on. There will always be worst scenario plans and rightly so. Every department of Government will have contingency emergency plans.

That's why once the sensationalisation of this report is over. Most people will know exactly what this is. Excellent to know that this is in place.

Hi Crystaltipps

When one votes in a Parliamentary General Election, your candidate stands on the Party manifesto. Your candidate as all other candidates have to stand for election or re-election on that Party mandate. In the case of Labour that mandate included Pro Brexit. I am sure you would have read the Labour mandate (the promises).

If your candidate was anti Brexit and the Labour party mandate was Pro Brexit, then your candidate is the one that mislead you. Not the Labour Party, their mandate was clear.

Hi Crystaltipps sorry should have said. The Conservative candidates stood for election or re-election at the General Election based on amongst other things Pro Brexit mandate.

They are fulfilling that promise and we are Brexiting. The details of that are complex and multiple enormous uncoupling from the EU. So no they are keeping their promise and steering this Nation through Brexit.

A shortage of food, petrol and medicine would grip the UK within weeks of the UK leaving the EU without a deal, according to secret warnings drawn up in Whitehall. According to the Sunday Times, civil servants have put together three scenarios for a ‘no deal’ Brexit – mild, severe and ‘armageddon’

Worryingly, the warnings over supermarkets running out of food within days and petrol shortages hitting within weeks come from the ‘severe’ model – not the most apocalyptic analysis. A source told the Sunday Times: “In the second scenario, not even the worst, the port of Dover will collapse on day one. The supermarkets in Cornwall and Scotland will run out of food within a couple of days, and hospitals will run out of medicines within two weeks. The UK would have to charter aircraft or enlist the military to move supplies to the furthest corners of the country. You would have to medevac medicine into Britain, and at the end of week two we would be running out of petrol as well.”

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/no-deal-brexit-food-shortages_uk_5b13a7f7e4b02143b7cd1b27?guccounter=1

How irresponsible to even suggest that when "the Deal" is known, a "meaningful vote would be a choice of "Deal or No Deal" where "No Deal" could mean such a disaster. The "meaningful vote should be between "the Deal" and the sensinble option of Remaining in the EU. No doubt the brexiteers will dismiss this as "fake news". They may decide to take the risk, but they are utterly wrong to cendemn us to this armageddon.

Allygran you have great faith that all MPs are in complete agreement with the party line. Many are not. With numerous defeats in the House of Lords as well as Tory Rebels on both sides of the argument, plus the Labour Party being divided on the issue, their is far from unanimity in the HoC.
they are keeping their promise and steering this Nation through Brexit. though some would see it as steering down sh*t creek without a paddle. - its hardly plain sailing for the hapless crew that is the government. Many of the problems are of their own making.
The latest on the NI border
Back to the drawing board as David Davis admits Irish border plan won't work
His latest plan sank without trace, about 12 hours after being floated
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/davis-u-turn-leaves-brexiteers-irish-border-plan-in-crisis-zvm2v792n
David Davis has conceded that surveillance technology cannot be used to police the Northern Ireland border
in a major climbdown that leaves Brexiteers’ favoured customs plan in disarray.
Pressure from the Police Service of Northern Ireland and concerns over civil liberties mean that
a key part of the Brexit secretary’s blueprint to deal with the border has had to go back to the drawing board
— with a crucial EU summit less than four weeks away.
Mr Davis is understood to have indicated this week that he would not push for solutions that involved monitoring or surveillance to track goods.
This could have included asking businesses that regularly trade across the UK border to install British government smartphone tracking apps
Uk govt & smart apps - what could go wrong ?

Crystaltipps No I don't either have great faith or believe that all MP's are in full agreement. The point I am making is that the Labour Party candidates stood on a Pro Brexit mandate. Having got into Parliament on that mandate the party line is Pro Brexit and they should honour the party mandate promise to support Brexit. Anything else is dishonest.

So I take it that you are a remain voters from what you say. That's fine. The majority voted leave on two occasions and if anyone thought it would be easy to get out of the clutches of the EU then they are mistaken. It took us since at least 1973 and before that really, to get ensnared by stealth, so two years to get out is good.

As a remainer naturally you will look for ways to support your own belief that we should remain in a failing system. As a Leave voter I will support the extraction process of Brexit.

There is not a lot more that can be said, other than to say the Conservative Government is fulfilling the mandate promises to the electorate to leave the EU. The EU is making that process difficult. Lots going on there, their attitude will change because Italy is going to bring the EU down eventually and threaten the eurozone. When one goes the lot will go, with perhaps protectionism in Germany.

No one with any idea of the scale of Brexit would have said it will be "plain sailing", however some of us are approaching it with a clear realistic understanding of the complexity and optimistic and exciting views of the future and other are not.

My view is, that Labour will fulfil their mandate promise to the Labour voters and support the Conservative Government as they fulfil their promise to Brexit.

The consequences on democracy, if either of these two main party's do not honour their mandates of the General Election ,is too horrendous to contemplate.

This is a test for British democracy.

varian Sun 03-Jun-18 15:05:32
"A shortage of food, petrol and medicine would grip the UK within weeks of the UK leaving the EU without a deal, according to secret warnings drawn up in Whitehall. According to the Sunday Times, civil servants have put together three scenarios for a ‘no deal’ Brexit – mild, severe and ‘armageddon’"

Varian. Anyone who has worked for a large organisation that is "managing change", or forward planning, has to do contingency planning. It would astonish me if the Government had not done this.

The worst and best scenario's are always imagined and considered, with the worst being the most difficult because of unknown factors and consequences, and must always look extreme.

Good to know that (as one would expect) this contingency planning is in place. Of course as a remainer you will take the pessimistic view, and not the reality of managing change as we Brexit with contingency planning being part of that process. Excellent management.

We can now clearly see that Brexit of any sort, let alone the "jump of a cliff" no-deal road to armageddon, is too horrendous to contemplate.

There may be a handful of diehard brexiters who will never agree that they were very wrong, but we should not be bullied by this travesty of democracy into condemning the lives of our children and grandchildren .

Well said Varian. The Brexiteers are prepared to cause untold damage to Britain on the altar of “freedom” from the EU.

"mostlyharmless Sun 03-Jun-18 17:26:45
Well said Varian. The Brexiteers are prepared to cause untold damage to Britain on the altar of “freedom” from the EU."

The majority vote at the Referendum and the majority vote at the General Election, means that the majority of electorate ,plus the two major political parties' in the UK, believe that leaving the EU will take this Country into the twenty first century.

The EU is a failing system and once Italy goes, the euro goes and the EEA countries will be in recession. In a modern capitalist world, economies have to be able to react quickly to financial threat from around the world. The EU cannot do this adequately.

You will have a lot to thank the majority of your fellow citizens for in the future. This Country is preparing for the twenty first century. Not sticking with an outdate system designed in another century to stop Germany from starting another war. This is about the future....an expansive, outward looking Country fit for the next generations future.

Fantasy

Only in your world mostly.

Yes I don’t live in a fantasy world allyg.

Your last two post together do not make sense Mh.

This is so pointless when your like this.

???????

"This is about the future....an expansive, outward looking Country fit for the next generations future." - this is empty rhetoric, a million miles away from reality.

Has our Brexit Trade man, Liam Fox, managed to negotoiate a single deal, let alone a deal on better terms than we already enjoy as EU members? Only last month Sky News reported that-

"Liam Fox has tried to allay concerns about a reduction in food standards after Brexit by revealing detailed discussions on a trade agreement with the US are yet to begin. The International Trade Secretary dismissed as "scaremongering" fears that Britain could be forced to accept the sale of food including chlorinated chicken or modified wheat. He told Sky News: "There are no preconditions about any potential agreement with the US. We haven't even begun to discuss in detail what any trade agreement might look like."

news.sky.com/story/liam-fox-no-detailed-discussion-yet-on-us-trade-deal-11354591

Since then of course our new best friend, Donald Trump has anounced new tarriffs of 25% on imported steel and 10% on aluminium which will damage us just as much as the rest of the EU. So much for the special relationship.

Absolutely damning testimony by ex Cambridge Analytica employee Chris Wylie on Channel 4. Surely no-one can any longer doubt that the brexit vote was obtained by fraudulent practices and should be revoked

www.channel4.com/news/cambridge-analytica-whisteblower-chris-wylie-reacts-to-testimony-of-former-boss

"varian Wed 06-Jun-18 21:11:27"
Some balance to your post about Chris Wylie:
Don’t believe everything you hear or see on TV.
By MARK SCOTT
3/27/18, 5:46 PM CET

Updated 3/29/18, 9:18 PM CET
“Cambridge Analytica refuted Wylie’s accusations, saying that it did not inappropriately collect or share data on Facebook users with third-parties. It added that Wylie had been a “part-time contractor” who left the organization in 2014, who did not have any knowledge of the company’s workings beyond that date.
“A further independent audit alongside regulatory investigations will confirm this once and for all,” the company said in a message on Twitter. “There’s not much more we can say on the matter.”
www.politico.eu/article/cambridge-analytica-chris-wylie-brexit-trump-britain-data-protection-privacy-facebook/

"Christopher Wylie, the Cambridge Analytica ‘whistleblower’ who self-described as a “smear merchant” in his school yearbook, despite having toldmedia outlets that he was a high school dropout."

"Former Liberal Democrat colleagues revealed over the weekend that Wylie had been employed only on a fixed-term contract which was not renewed “because he is a compulsive bullsh*tter and doesn’t know what he’s talking about.” Nick Clegg’s former special adviser said he had “never met him while he was ‘working as a strategist for the Lib Dems in government’ “, while another former Lib Dem colleague said “Chris Wylie thinks he’s Edward Snowden when he’s actually Walter Mitty”."
"Wylie himself sent a pitch in January 2016 to Vote Leave Campaign Director, Dominic Cummings, (which Cummings rejected,) offering to “microtarget” voters using “next generation psychographic methods”, the same practices he has described as “grossly unethical” since becoming a whistleblower.

Wylie’s pitch was co-authored with Mark Gettleson, another Liberal Democrat who was forced to resign from Norman Lamb’s 2016 leadership campaign after being accused of unethical push polling. And last week, Private Eye revealed that other former colleagues of Wylie had described him as “arrogant”, a “fantasist” and a “narcissist”:
“They point, for example, to his boast that during the 2008 US election, aged 18, he “went to learn all things data from Obama’s national director of targeting, which he then introduced to Canada for the Liberal party”. This much touted “Obama campaign” involvement was actually a junior data-entry job.”
brexitcentral.com/revealed-brexit-whistleblowers-inconsistent-inaccurate-claims/

Main text pasted.

Be careful about the sources of "information" Brexitcentral is a propaganda website run by the extreme end of the Vote Leave campaign.

Channel 4 News is a well respected, impartial and reliable source of news.

You mean you read the post varian? You must have some patience.
Interesting stuff today about the government’s unpreparedness, the lack of competence in the government and lack of direction we are taking. ( see the Times, the FT ) It seems Brexiteers who are pleased with the way things are going must be acting on faith as there is no evidence that things are going to be marvellous anytime soon on any measure. Brexiteers voted to cut immigration and £350m a week for the NHS, I don’t know if they still think this is really going to happen. Few voted to make trade with our closest neighbours more difficult, but hey the EUs fault isn’t it.? It’s bonkers to think the EU is going to change their clearly laid out terms just because we’re British and sooo important. Still no agreement on Irish border, just waiting for the DUP to pull the plug on their support for the government. And only a few weeks to the next stage of negotiations.

You are clearly joking about channel 4 news Varian. It is a news programme, they are not analysing it, they just report what this chap said. What he said does not have to be true. Clearly it isn't on investigation.

I am aware of Brexit Central being a website in support of Brexit. Just as there are many who support remain. Propaganda does not mean the content is not true. It just means that both remain and leave organised supporters are putting out information to support their stance. It does not mean that what is being said is untrue.

You will see on the post's that the comments were made by the Liberal Democrats, who worked with Wylie during their time in co-alition government. Wylie employer Cambridge Analytica who clearly say he was not employed by them after 2014. Private Eye also reported on Wylie. As reported in Brexit Central. I concluded from these reports that Chris Wylie's information is fallacious and suspect based on his previous history. They can't all be wrong!

I am quite clear that Channel 4 News is a much better source of reliable information than any brexit propaganda site.

Channel 4 news did not "just report what this chap said". He was interviewed and questioned at length by Krishnan Gurumurthy. Try watching this seven minute interview on you-tube. I watched it at the time and found him very convincing.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jjc_7BWq84

I have watched it Varian. The fact Chri Wylie is on TV and being interviewed does not give character references as the people who have worked with him clearly can.

I find myself in the very strange position of willing Nicola Sturgeon of SNP and Aileen Foster of DUP to be as awkward and uncompromising as they can to stop this Brexit fiasco. What a dilemma as I cannot stand either of them. Talk about my enemy's enemy is my friend.