Regret it Brexit Part 2

www.independent.co.uk/voices/david-davis-resignation-brexit-secretary-theresa-may-crisis-over-a8387536.html

Today's fudge by May - looks likely to be rejected by the EU.

They have signed up to a soft border in Ireland; now they have to accept what that means. And one thing it cannot mean is that a soft border expires on a certain date.

Not a big step away from retaining EEA membership, as in next weeks’s Parliamentary Amendments.
Although Remain would be simpler and better all round.

Latest YouGov survey June 8th

What comes closest to your view on how well Brexit is going?
All Brits: 10% well, 73% badly
Remain: 5% well, 85% badly
Leave: 16% well, 70% badly
yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/re…

Yesterday’s YouGov poll showed that there has been a drop of 4% in the last month of those who think Brexit is going well, only 10% think it is going well 73% think it’s going badly. I think it may have dropped even lower since today’s Davis fudge.

Chrystaltipps can you send the link for YouGov survey 8th June again. The link given is showing an error 404 on the page.

yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/results?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_1#/survey/ea30cfa2-6a2d-11e8-b423-d74e00ea34be/question/75c67445-6a2e-11e8-9d33-9d5c8eb86689/politics

Asking voters what they think of how well Brexit is going is meaningless, since voters have no real idea of exactly what is being planned or how negotiations are really going.
It was always going to be a tortuous and long drawn out ducking and diving by both sides.We need to wait until the end of all this before we can draw conclusions.

So right lemongrove. I don't know about you but I am getting Brexit fatigue. No one around my neighbourhood talks about it at all anymore. The general feeling a while ago was just get on with it. Hard Brexit if we must. The EU need to know we mean business and if they want a border in Ireland then let them put one up on their side. I know it's not that simple, just feel that way. Fortunate I am not doing the negotiation.
The technical border is the way forward for the twenty first century "we have the technology" which programme is that from?

Crystaltipps thanks for the links.

This was from yesterday
David Davis has conceded that surveillance technology cannot be used to police the Northern Ireland border in a major climbdown that leaves Brexiteers’ favoured customs plan in disarray
I seem to recall Brexit supporters toasting T May as she signed an agreement back in December which was supposed to have solved the Irish issue. Seems not. We don’t have the technology btw, and if we did we wouldn’t have it up and running by next March, ooh no it’s now sometime in 2021. It’s not only voters who have no real idea of how negotiations are going, our government are divided and clueless as ever.

crystaltipps Thu 07-Jun-18 21:53:53

Can you give a link to the cut and paste? Or where the piece came from. Thanks

Googling the phrase brings up several results.This is one, but paywalled.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/davis-u-turn-leaves-brexiteers-irish-border-plan-in-crisis-zvm2v792n

Yes it was the Times. Wednesday. Thanks MD. I think most people who aren’t torykippers can see the negotiations aren’t going that well with all the cabinet infighting and divisions, talks of Max Fac, backstops, alignments and the like. Seems a new fudge everyday.

Has anyone been watching Channel 4 documentary “Carry on Brussels”?
Eighteen out of 73 British MEPs are UKIP.
The UKIP members are an embarrassment. They take their salaries and expenses but deliberately sabotage serious debates all the time.
What on Earth must the Europeans think of the British?

How the hell is Johnson still a minister? His latest views, quoted in the Guardian:

"Johnson’s views were laid bare in the secret recording in which he criticised the significance the Irish border issue has taken on in the negotiations with Brussels.

“It’s so small and there are so few firms that actually use that border regularly, it’s just beyond belief that we’re allowing the tail to wag the dog in this way. We’re allowing the whole of our agenda to be dictated by this folly,” he said."

The reality? According to data from Transport Infrastructure Ireland, the public agency responsible for national road and public transport networks, an average of some 6,500 HGVs pass over the invisible frontier in NI every single day. That is a huge volume of registered commercial movement by road and quite separate from the daily passage of goods and materials by people privately transporting items north and south.

Is he totally ignorant or totally dishonest? In my view, it's probably both.

So you are not a new GN member Crystaltipps ?
I thought you sounded familiar.
What the heck are Torykippers, is that Daily Mirror speak?
So many forum members seem to know exactly what we should not be doing regarding Brexit....any know what we should be doing?
The LP are just as divided over Brexit as the Tories btw.

Shouldn’t the government know what we should be doing?

Boris Johnson knew exactly what he was doing when he stood up at that dinner and was 'secretly recorded'. Just watching Victoria Derbyshire programme on in background and a former political advisor just said that when you are in government, a minister, you are never off the record. He is not a fool, he is dangerous, pushing May to the limits of her tolerance, making her look weak. The EU negotiators undoubtedly are aware of this fiasco, we must be the laughing stock.

Most of the French I know well enough to say anything to me think the Brits are totally mad and cannot understand it at all - they are sympathetic to the position we find ourselves in.

GillT, I suspect you are right. Do you think it's all part of his leadership bid? He does seem to be taking lessons from the Trump approach ?

I just don’t know what to think of BJ or what his intentions are. I agree that that was no ‘leak’. I really do think he overestimates himself however. I still recall all the scenes on TV the day after the referendum when he looked absolutely terrified at what had happened. He got that spectacularly wrong didn’t he do why should he be getting anything right now?

I can't recall BJ getting much right! I suspect BJ thinks if Trump can be president then he can be prime minister. This is what he said: “Imagine Trump doing Brexit. He’d go in bloody hard… there’d be all sorts of breakdowns, all sorts of chaos. Everyone would think he’d gone mad. But actually you might get somewhere. It’s a very, very good thought"

Watched the first 10 minutes or so of the first episode but turned if off it was just too*mostlyharmless*.

Agreed maryeliza, the day after the referendum result BJ did look terrified, rather an 'oh sh*t, what have I done?'. He just wanted to be on the opposite side to his friend and enemy Cameron and got it spectacularly wrong. I do not trust him at all, even less than I trust most politicians. I think he is going to make a break for it and bid for power, probably as the saviour of the remainers, a road to Brussels conversion so to speak. He is slippery, devious and the bumbling jovial chappy image fools nobody now. He is a proven liar, to his employer (The Times), his party leader ( Michael Howard) and his wife when he had his numerous affairs and fathered a child by one of his mistresses. A man with this lack of moral compass will have no compunction about lying to the electorate.

I had no difficulty deciding in 2016 that I should vote Remain as I was aware of the many advantages of EU membership and could foresee the utter chaos that would follow a Leave vote. I am sure that there are others on GN who were equally convinced that they ought to vote Leave.

However. Boris Johnson had no idea whether he should support Leave or Remain. He prepared two different speeches anouncing his support for each camp. He had absolutely no concern for what was in the best interests of the UK, only what he saw as giving him the best chance of promotion. I don't know whether he spun a coin or whether his old school rivalry with David Cameron was the deciding factor, but he opted for Leave.

He is completely devoid of morals or principles, but since making that move he has cast himself as the arch-brexiteer, who will ensure that we are driven over the cliff because he thinks by undermining Theresa May at every opportunity his time will come.

I don't always agree with Nicola Sturgeon but I endorse the comments she made this morning that this man is totally unfit for high office. He is a disgrace and a national embarrassment.

varian and Gill ????????