If there was another EU referendum...

Jura2 Your statement regarding split's in families due to Brexit and my response being I find it hard to believe. Well my answer is the same, with a small addition, sad and unbelievable.

As for your comment:
" If your child, or brother or sister says 'I am really scared of what will happen because of x, y, z' and the reply is 'ah well, never mind, suck it up and don't be a snowflake' - how would YOU feel about them?"

I am so delighted to be able to say that neither my children, brother or sisters would every behave or speak to or about each other in such an appalling way, ever under any circumstances.

There are three things to be said in response.
First. Not one person in my family who voted remain have said they voted so because they were scared.
Two. Had anyone said they were scared by Brexit in my family the response would have been to find out why and talk about it. Three. Your remarks raise the question what sort of families are you involved with, and to be frank how do YOU feel about them? How I feel is that they are clearly not very family functional if they cannot resolve a political difference even of this magnitude with discussion without falling out, name calling each other and allowing things to get out of hand and not speaking or resenting each other. As another poster has said "agree to differ". Do you know Jura the behaviour and language you use sometimes seems very immature to me, very strange coming from someone older.

Your comment about this not being just a political decision, is the very point most of us leave voters have been trying to get over to you for months. I am so pleased that you have finally "got-it": Brexit is about the future not the past and I believe that to remain is to remain trapped in a trading organisation passing itself off as a Nation State, that has no citizens, so it has taken unto itself the citizens of other Country's and made them Citizens of a trading organisation by giving them a Passport. How could we have fallen for this.

The EU pretending to be a Nation, an elected democracy when it is actually a trading organisation ranks high in the biggest con's ever perpetrated on the World. It is a failing financial and trading organisation, with it's self made legal system, a planned military organisation intent on solving it's unemployment and potential extreme politicisation of the young people of 27 country's including the young of the EFTA country's,by creating military conscription of young people, as it's next 'move'. Of course disguised as 'peacekeeping". Nothing this organisation ever does is what it seems!
Unbelievable!!

Why do you think times have changed nellie? The memorial ceremonies are still held every year here in Normandy, the veterans are welcomed with open arms and cared for by local people, the cemeteries are looked after impeccably in the tiniest villages.
We have had nothing but kindness and support from our French friends and neighbours; people are very sad and disappointed that the UK is leaving the EU but I have never heard any bitterness or nasty remarks.
I think it suits the gutter press to paint the French as the enemy and it is sad that people believe it.
I speak French, I watch French television and read the French papers and in my experience what is being reported in the UK papers is greatly exaggerated or downright nonsense. There are idiots in every country, but it is not the view of the majority.

Jura I have now seen another post from you about "lines I will not cross" with people you are related to or know.

Jura you are truly the most unfortunate person I have ever come across. You have every type of person imaginable, with every human failing and every type of politics and every socially unacceptable or politically incorrect view or opinion from fascism to racism, just one missing far left activist, even a Trump voter, either in your family, close friends, or aquaintance's, it must be so convenient for you when writing your post, since this allows you to praise, condemn or make any point or counterpoint to any post or comment. However, very sad from a personal point of view, since you must have so many people for whom you will not cross your moral and ideological "line" for.

Mamie
Similar situation when we go to Spain in the winter. We see the same Germans at the camp sites. The majority respect our reason for leaving and of course hope that we reach a trading agreement especially so as some have children working in the car industry.

I am not sure about respecting the reasons for leaving petra. I teach U3A classes and my students mostly say, " if we had ever thought of leaving, what is happening to the economy of the UK would make us change our minds".
But they like their cheap holidays in London because of the low state of the pound and also like all the British companies moving their wealth to Paris. ?

Petra and Mamie,

The common sense, and decency of real people living and working in Europe. How good to have this sort of feedback about Brexit, from you both.

When I used the word respect, I used it in the sense of: due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others.
Something we have yet to see on GN.

Yes I agree with that Petra.

allygran ? ? ?

Maisie, DH's grandfather is buried in a small cemetery in Northern France killed a month before the end of WW1, my father also is buried, by the germans, with his six comrades in the corner of a private protestant cemetery in the Netherlands, so I am well aware of the respect and dedication that these graves receive.
Sorry to disagree, but my SIL lives in France and she advised us not to say that we voted to leave last time we visited as it wouldn't be well received. We took her advise, and all was well, but brexit clearly was controversial!

I can understand why it would not be well received by the British community nellie. Our lives have been turned upside down and most people are very anxious. It is hard not to feel upset by that.
I think if you are talking to French people then you could expect to have a lively debate. Most people we know like a good political argument!

I have mainland European DIL and a GC raised and educated in mainland Europe, no disputes or troubles between our families.

S.IL lives in a very small village in South West France so it was French friends and a lovely Dutch family that she and we felt we should respect.

jura2 Wed 18-Jul-18 17:49:54
Allygran about Brexit spliting up families- I was surprised myself yesterday, when post after post after post, said the same, eg, that people were struggling to meet, visit or have visit parents sibblings and other friends and relatives. Not because they voted Brexit, per se - but because of the related stuff that has come about, about immigrants for instance- which shocked in their nature

I have just come across this and wonder if Jura is living in a parallel universe with a parallel GransNet as I struggle to find post after post in which grans describe the deep divisions in their family, the inability to meet or visit.
Where are all these “posts after posts”?

If Allygran will permit me to quote her post

I should also say Jura that I have never heard a single person either remain or leave voter say anything about their depths of feeling being such that it has divided their family, disagree yes, split and divide never. It seems that there is the real world and then there must be an artificial Brexit bubble in which a few people reside which you so often quote or comment about.

Its always been simple to me.....in a world were the Putins and the Trumps can do so much harm.....we need all the friends we can get. Its just the same as when you were in school and the bully tried to have a go.....you needed friends to stand by you. You might not agree with everything your friends said and did but you just knew they were not like the bully!

Wise words hilda.

HilldaW
I think you will find when 'push comes to shive' it has always been he Americans than have stood by us. Even the Northern Irish recognise the EU offered no help whatsoever during the 'troubles'. It was UK, And US thatt brokered the agreement.

And if we have to put our trust in Trump, then heaven help us.
He in no way compares with more rational and decent presidents of the past.

That is true, but Trump will go, fingers crossed sooner rather than later and hopefully we can then get back on an even keel with the U.S.
In our family we had four leavers, one aged 19, three remainers and one who didn't vote. We simply don't discuss it anymore, and have no animosity whatsoever. We are where we are and falling out over it isn't going to change a thing.

Trump is not The United States.He will have his time as President and go, and another President will have their turn.
Yes, it’s the US and not countries in Europe that have come to our aid.

Lemon, I think it's us who have gone to their aid (Europe) twice to my knowledge. I don't recall them EVER coming to ours!!! So in the long term the U.S. would seem a better bet!!

It certainly does.??

Allygran your post at 17.21 is spot on. Such a broad demographic of negative contacts is indeed most unfortunate. But convenient when one wants to prove a point in an argument!

Chewbacca,