If there was another EU referendum...

I would add that quoting s load of party names is meaningless. Far right ideology doesn't respect party boundaries
However being recognised as a legitimate political party gives a slot on the ballot paper, status, the opportunity to sit in parliament, to influence or dictate policy, to be elected to positions of leadership, all of which are happening in several European countries right now.
Are these the politicians we want to have a say in our affairs?
Hard enough when Right wing politicians are elected to Westminster and as yet, thank god the likes of the BNP have been sent packing, but we have no say in elections in Austria, Italy, or Germany where it is happening.
Not a nebulous threat - fact.

Hard enough when Right wing politicians are elected to Westminster

Well, I hope to god that people recognise that the hard right exists already in Westminster when we next have a General Election and act to eliminate them or minimise their influence.

But at least we can, insofar as our electoral system permits

Oh my Lemongrove - 'A bit futile at this stage to be yelling about ‘ legalities’ !'

Really? As Maizie says- can't you see that it is bizarre in the extreme- to say we want our own Laws back, get back control - by going illegally going against our Own Sovereign Laws and Rules.

So do you want them - or don't you?

At the end of the day, we have a tiny majority, massive lies and proven fraud, + the above- and soon lots of clear info about the implications- so a Vote on the Final Deal is essential. Would you rather the refusal to have one trigger a General Election perhaps?

How dare you accuse me of agreeing with fascism, how dare you? So unbelievably rude and offensive! How dare you hide behind the computer and say something so revolting to me? Were you not taught how to behave politely or how to put your point across without resorting to crude insults? I’m not asking for your comment to be removed, I want there for everyone to see; they can see how you have accused me of being sympathetic to Hitler. You disgust me!

That post is addressed to Maizie, although I’m sure everyone will have realised that.

‘.....nodding along with the Hitler speech.....’
Absolutely disgusting accusation.

The "Independent" today launches a campaign to win for the British people the right to a final say on Brexit. Come what may in the months ahead, we maintain our commitment to our readers to retain balance and present many different points of view. But on this subject we believe a referendum on the final deal is right. We do so for three reasons.

First, amid the chaos of recent months, one thing has become increasingly clear: Theresa May’s approach – and indeed the chaos in parliament – is not working. We are simply not close enough to resolving so many big issues about which people care so much. The enormity of the task, the contradictions in both major parties and the ferocious divisions in their ranks have now stretched our parliament to its limits, to the point where the impasse leads us ever closer to an “accidental” Brexit, as foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt most recently acknowledged, without a deal.

Second, sovereignty rests with the people – the people should have the opportunity to finish what they began, to pause and consider whether they still want to go ahead with the Brexit course we’re on, just as they would any other major decision in their lives.

Third, while there are questions about the validity of another referendum – shouldn’t the original outcome be delivered? – we clearly know more now than we did in 2016, amid such deeply flawed campaigns on both sides. Ignoring these shortcomings and ploughing on regardless is a far bigger problem for democracy. Faced with the current turmoil in our politics, and with dangers ahead coming into focus, it is surely undemocratic to deny people a chance to express their opinion afresh.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/referendum-final-say-no-deal-brexit-peoples-vote-chequers-white-paper-will-of-british-people-a8461331.html

I agree maddyone but as my Dad used to say
“Treat it with the contempt it so richly deserves”.

I did not name you in my post, maddyone. As you didn't even read the speech how could I have come to that conclusion?

I just noted that there were elements of that speech which, from posts over the last couple of years, some Gnetters would have felt comfortable with.

No, you prefer the scatter-gun variety of insult, apparently.
Throw enough mud and see it it sticks.

I did not name you in my post, maddyone.

The implication was there though.

Re ‘The Independent’s’ campaign to have a referendum on the final deal, that would seem to me to be the appropriate and democratic thing to do. If the vote still returned a leave verdict, as a remainer, I would then accept it. That is something I cannot do at the moment as I feel that the original vote is tainted by lack of information and inaccurate information. Why are leavers so opposed to a second referendum based on the terms of the deal? You should feel confident that a leave vote would be returned again as you are so sure that that is the will of the people.

Joelsnan, 24 July; 20:17
”What on earth would be the point of offering the country a referendum with all the palaver and expense it entails only to say ‘only kidding’ because the result wasnt as expected. We are venturing into the land of the ridiculous”.

Joelsnan, referenda are advisory. The fact that you don't like that and think they are ridiculous is neither here nor there.
Let me give you an example of an advisory referendum. (I know some will now think ”what has this got to do with us and Brexit, but I'll risk that).

In the past traffic in Sweden held to the left. In modern times it became clear that international traffic was going to increase and it was in Sweden's interest to fall in line with most other European countries and operate right-hand driving. A committee was set up to analyse the cost of introducing right-hand driving. In 1955 a referendum was held in which 83% of voters voted to keep driving on the left. Despite this the Swedish Parliament decided to introduce right-hand driving and on the 3 September 1967 Sweden switched to right-hand driving.

I think it is an interesting comparison with how we conducted our referendum.

Jura a question. Why do you not want the UK to have control over as you put it^ "it's own laws our own Laws back, get back control"^? You then go onto say "by going illegally going against our Own Sovereign Laws and Rules". Another bold statement Jura. Can you please say why you believe "we are going against our Own Sovereign Laws and Rules"

As for your other comments, really we cannot keep on going over and over and over for you, that the referendum vote to leave was then confirmed by the General Election vote. The majority is a majority, if it is one of ten. In this case 17.5 million people thereabout voted leave, and in the GE the Conservatives were re-elected on a Pro Brexit mandate and increased their share of the vote the highest increase for any party since the 1980's.

How many times do you want it confimed that the majority of people in this Country want to leave the EU, a trading organisation, with machinations of being a Nation, with no real citizens, who is paid a membership fee by 27/8 Country's for them to organise trading, who then by stealth took unto itself, illegal powers of a legal system to subsume the laws of 28 Countrys imposing and rules, regulations, hidden in trading agreements for access to a single market, that does not belong to them in the first place, that market is created by the member states, all that the EU does is broker and in my view not even honestly broker those agreements. Now also looming conscription of citizens of 27 member Country's (who the EU have made citizens: citizens of where?There is no Country called EU it does not exist). So if your looking for lies, and cons, and smoke and mirrors any one who believes that the EU is a Country really has been brain washed (that term may not be PC now, I apologies for using it in advance. Offence it is not intended). The EU is a con on the scale of some of the biggest world wide cons such as Cults in my view. Jura you are always asking if we understand things, well I am asking you have you actually researched the EU? Do you understand how it works? Before you criticise the UK system, particularly in defence of the EU organisation, you should look at the system you so vigorously support.

And now into an Army to cover up the mass unemployment of massive amounts of young people, with the potential to riot and extreme political views both right and left including the potential to bring anarchy to EEA Countrys and all in the name of a Single market!!! You want that?? Why???

You will of course note that the anarchy and other extreme politics in the EEA Country's is not happening to the EU, because it is NOT a Country (forgive the shout) it, does not have to deal with these issues, it only deals with financial implications of social unrest that it's single market, single currency, rules, regs, customs union, and free movement cause to it's paying member Country's. When it goes bust, it will shut up shop. It just sacks it's employee's, sells its assets, and waves bye-bye! Country's can't do that, Government's can't do that. This is one of the very big differences in responsibility, security and citizenship between an elected Government and an unelected organisation pretending to be an elected Government.

The EU is a group of people, men actually who unelected and within their own Legal system, created by them, using their own financial system, created by them, using their rules and regulations, created by them, sit in their offices. When people start fighting in the streets, it won't be there street, they will have gone home to at the end of a days business or where they will be dining. They live in luxurious surroundings, away from the overcrowded major cities of the EEA Countrys, created by the free movement that they created!. They will suffer no deprivation, and if things go really badly they will just shut up shop and move to another "safe" haven and another job! That is the reality of the EU. It is an Organisation not a Nation State. So if your looking for illegality, start there.

Greta, you cannot compare a small country like Switzerland's system of Governance, with a Country of the size of the UK. You must compare apples with apples not apples with pears!
Your argument is invalid if you do not, as I was always told as a student.

Greta or even Sweden! Sorry! But Switzerland is relevant too.

Allyg 'Jura a question. Why do you not want the UK to have control over as you put it^ "it's own laws our own Laws back, get back control"^? You then go onto say "by going illegally going against our Own Sovereign Laws and Rules". Another bold statement Jura. Can you please say why you believe "we are going against our Own Sovereign Laws and Rules"'

several of us have explained this, again and again - so no, I won't do so again- but it is called Parliamentary Democracy, in a country where Referendums are always, by law, consultative only. End of.

So what was the point of Sweden's referendum?! I know it was a long time ago, but the result was obviously predetermined, so what was the purpose?!! You'll tell me its was advisory! If so, it proves categorically, bearing in mind the overwhelming result, that advisory referendums are a complete waste of time, energy, money and only cause discord, personal distress hostility and ridicule.
Allygran, your post about the EU is just spot on. It's everything you say, and in my mind a completely disgraceful, organisation that has morphed insidiously from the trading block it was originally set up as, into behaving like a country with a self appointed, unelected commission running it with the help of a 'Parliament' that is clearly window dressing designed to give the appearance of democracy, when in reality they have to tow the line particularly the Brexit line, for fear of losing funding! A request for transparency concerning expenses has been defeated!! I bet it has!!!! The real drivers of this organisation are so corrupt, and hypocritical beyond belief. Let's face it, in a nutshell it's a rich boys club , a closed shop, a gravy train and a complete disgrace! EU army, why? surely we have NATO!!!? Well it should get youth unemployment down! Think we've all seen through that!!

Thank goodness for that you actually said "^End of^".

Well put nellie!!

You misinterpreting my post again ;)

Anyhow, no wonder tempers are fraying at the edges... and James got it spot on again, but this time, he is not wasting time to even try to debate- and I understand how he feels

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ah well, shame preview does not let you test links-

in short- don't, but don't - begin to blame us Remainers for the mess we are in. You said it was Project Fear, and it is turning out even worse- but don't say you were not warned- and don't you dare to blame us.

Some drugs cannot be stored, bloods can only be stored for 1 month- and there is already a short supply - shall be buy it in from ... where. We have only just sort of got over the contaminated blood disaster (yes, disaster for those affected, death even- so no melodrama here)...so never mind spam and 'adequate food supplies'.

Jura what are you talking about? Heavens to Murgatroyd! Talk about desperation. What utter and complete scaremongering. Even with all your protestations you clearly love the EU trading organisation more than you love this Country. You will resort to wanting to damage it and scare it's citizens with this sort of unfounded statement, about shortages of medicines?

Your audience is here on GN. You must have gathered by now, as I have that not a lot of people on GN News and Politic's are vulnerable to the 'party line' that you are peddling Jura.

I see it for what it is and my guess is so do others! Since you declined to answer the questions I and others nicely ask of you when you make these very unprofessional outlandish, unfounded statements, it makes all your other remarks as in your last post simply intentionally fallacious and dismissible.

Allygran1 and Nigglynellie,

the difference between the Swedish referendum and our UK one is that the Swedes set up a committee that did a comprehensive analysis of costs/consequences. Where was our analysis of the consequences of leaving the EU? Surely, lies and slogans on buses don't count as an analysis. The decision to leave the EU was an extremely important one for our country. Do you not think that the British people deserved to be given facts? The EU referendum was badly prepared.