Labour Party and anti semitism

I can only reiterate what I've said before (can't remember if on this or another thread), Ian Austin is a local MP, known to be hardworking and an honourable man.

Yes you have spoken of Ian Austin Blinko, now it is being claimed he his taking monies from the Israeli Government

Today we learn the anti semitism within the Labour Party is a lie , beggers the question - why did Corbyn apologise for something which according to stormer doesn’t exist !

varian, most of the Labour MP’s want us to stay in the EU, Corbyn doesn’t

I understand what you are saying, everything on the internet isn't true and in balance that goes for our newspapers and our MSM, but when you have factual television programmes with evidence being aired, then you have to be curios surely to get to the truth? Are you saying that Jewish people who have different politics are anti Semitic? That's the problem with the IHRA, and Mr Stern the author of the IHRA document has come out to say that the NEC's take on the tweaks to four of the 'examples' within that document have been made clearer and indeed been improved upon, he also went as far to as to say before these improvements it was a flawed document as when he put it together it was still deemed a work in progress, but now the Jewish Board of Deputies, a majority of whom are Conservative, want this flawed document to be enshrined as holy writ! There has to be debate from all sides surely, not just one vision to move forward. LemonGrove, I came here to post about my grandchildren moving away and how I was upset by this, and came upon this post by chance, but I hope you don't mean that I am not welcome on here, there is always a first time to post on any forum. Also you made reference to Corbyn admitting there was anti Semitism within the LP, most of these tropes were on the internet, and a small percentage were indeed within our ranks, a vast majority have been posted by unknowns, how do we police that? can any other political party police that? No more than we can stop all the visual and verbal nonsense that is posted, it's impossible. As for not taking everything I say at face value because it's my first post on GN!!! That makes no sense, I simply saw this thread whilst posting a gran related upset, and yes for the first time. Anything I have said is not here say, it is all evidence based, other wise I wouldn't have posted it. Anniebach you commented that Ms Walker stated that she didn't know the definition of anti Semitism, I saw that address and it was secretly filmed with the purpose to take things, as always out of context. She was actually opening up debate on what AS really meant, what it was, i.e. 'What is AS, uhmm! let's see! do I really know? Of course she knows, she is a black Jewish lady and her spouse is Jewish. Our democratic system has become so corrupt it's unworkable, that's the problem, that's what we are trying to engage with. Also regarding there being more AS within Labour there is an investigation carried out by Government, in 2016 that clearly states that the LP has less AS within it's home than any other party, go figure, that is not btw on tinternet, that is and can be viewed on Hansard, government website. On that report it has also stated and verified that AS within the LP has fallen since Corbyn's tenure, that is why we know this campaign to bring him down is based on mis information. We have been in the grip of neo liberalism now for over thirty years, Mr Blair carried that on in the name of Mrs Thatcher who also stated on record as having considered one of her greatest achievements as having been bringing New Labour onside. No offence, but when I see things not being given the full facts I have to say something, we have to have balance, for so long it has been one sided, and I won't stand idly by. As for Brexit, don't get me started. Over and out. I need to attend to my husband, he has brain damage and the help we need has been sadly lacking since 2010. That's why I'm passionate about the truth, that and as a retired nurse I see the damage done to our NHS. There is more that unites us all than divides, if only we would listen to one and other.

Corbyn admired a wall mural which was anti semetic, - seems he didn’t look closely at it !

Corbyn was on an abusive forum but left in 2015, the year he became leader, seems he hadn’t read the anti semetic posts.

Not observant is he !

Stormer, you post your views but don’t seem to listen, just as Corbyn admires a wall mural but doesn’t really look at it and belonged to an anti semetic forum but didn’t read the posts.

No offence but your posts are not balanced .

Will you post proof the MP’s you named are receiving monies from the Israeli Government ?

Anniebech, I voted remain, and the day after the vote I was crushed, there is a lot wrong with the EU, there is a lot wrong with Westminster, but we have to work with it. I would dearly love for there to be another referendum to the outcome, will we get it? I don't think we will, but I'll lobby my MP all the same. Mr Corbyn did apologise for the hurt caused by this debacle, and btw I never said AS didn't exist in the LP, it exists everywhere what I said was, look at Hansard, the government website and the fully documented investigation into the levels of AS within the parties, and it also states that AS has fallen within the LP since Corbyn's tenure. You twisted my words, I didn't say it didn't exist, I will now clearly state that the investigation by government showed categorically that there is less AS in the LP than any other party. As for Israeli funding, of course MP's have been funded by political offshoots of Israel, that's a fact, not internet based, fact based. Ruth Smeeth worked for BICOM before she was put in place for a LP seat. There is a list of all MP's and where their funds come from, FOI requests not needed because they are on each individual MP on government website, so it's not just 'being claimed' that Labour Friends of Israel or Conservative Friends of Israel are being funded by Israel, it's a fact. Why else would we have these groups within parliament? Westminster is as corrupt as the next government, if not more so, that's what we are fighting here. We want the CLP's to select MPs not have them flown in at the bequest of a Leader, which is what's happening now. That's what re selection is all about, letting the people choose who they want to represent us. Back to it's roots, back to what the Labour party stood for in Kier Hardy's day. There were many Jewish people who joined the LP in those days too.

stormer, did you not say you were in a group , ‘ Jewish voice for Labour. I am a long standing member of the Labour Party, don’t belong to any group, never have, because of this I can speak for myself only and not what any group says, believes or thinks.

Jewish Voice for Labour are staunch Corbyn supporters are they not.

Oops, sorry, does the group Jewish Voice for Labour receive monies from Palastine ?

Anniebech, I looked at that mural, and I for one just saw the 1% squeezing the rest, I didn't look for Jewish characteristics, I just plainly saw it initially as oppression before it came under AS scrutiny. I have been on forums that have had some terrible posts, the nature of which have mostly been simply racist, mainly Islamophobic, and posts relating to Eastern Europeans, Black people and homophobic remarks. They are all horrendous and uncalled for, most of the AS remarks come under the banner of not agreeing with Israeli policy, many Jewish people in Israel also protest it's government let's not forget that fact. Because I am on such forums, and because people post such hateful things, though they are few and far between on the sites I visit, does that make me a party to their crime? No it doesn't, because I can't stop them coming on websites and posting such horrible things. I have visited some right wing websites, and my word the hatred there is broiling, horrendous. What's happening now is as a direct consequence of our establishment being given carte blanche to turn Jew upon Muslim, Muslim against Christian, gay against straight, black against white, left against right, capitalism against democratic socialism, we are fighting one and other so much we fail to see what those at the top are doing. Whilst we bicker they make the changes that at present are going to make living in the UK worse than it's ever been. We either want a socialist government without the interference of big money funding it, or we don't. I rather like the idea of us all having a voice for the good of our neighbours, who ever they may be. As for proof of who funds who, just look for the information through valid sites, it's there. Also I urge you to look at the Dispatches programme from Channel 4, aired on 20th February 2011, Peter Oborne, I keep spelling his name differently, scuse! Look out for Rabbi David Goldberg and Prof David Newman, they will explain the nuances. I am trying to be balanced here, but I apologise if you believe I'm not.

With respect I don’t think your posts are balanced, you posted of Margaret Hodge a councillor in Islington but no mention of Corbyn the M.P. who did nothing , this is not balanced is it ?

This is why I will not belong to groups, so one sided, their views or no view.

Sorry to learn of your husband’s ill health

It would appear that I've opened up a debate that didn't agree with those who quietly want to go along with saying Corbyn et al are all just 'expletive Anti Semite Racists', Hodge to Corbyn, and 'expletive expletive' Austin to Lavery. I also didn't expect to find on a site dedicated to grandparents a thread which misconstrues politics in a way that could be considered propagandist. I'm appalled that such subliminal mind gaming in a world so full of despair is alive and thriving on a site like this, it is a very worrying concept. And if I didn't feel bullied before I came on here, this is evidence that I am being bullied and it's sickening.

You are not being bullied stormer, you are being disagreed with, seems by me, I do not bully . As you are new to these threads may I explain? Most of us post our own opinions, we disagree often. We are not brainwashed by MSN we think for ourselves and and draw on our own experiences.

I voted for Corbyn in the leadership contest, bitterly regret it, I do not trust him, and I am angry my party has been taken over by Momentum.

My views which I reached after being a party member for over fifty years, a campaigner at every election, a campaigner who cannot forgive Corbyn for working against grass roots members after the 1983 disasterous election, we were door knocking, telephone canvassing, stuffing envelopes etc trying to win back labour supporters who left us because of the militants / far left in the party, Corbyn was running a campaign from his own home at the same time fighting to get the militants back in the party, i wish he had been honest and joined the communist party.

I also didn't expect to find on a site dedicated to grandparents a thread which misconstrues politics in a way that could be considered propagandist
Free speech is allowed in a democracy; this is a site where posters, mainly older people who may or may not be grandparents, can air their personal views and enter into open discussion.

Your posts come across as propaganda to me (what I have read of them) Stormer.
If you can point out how you have been bullied then I am sure that GNHQ will take a look.

stormer, I have read again your comments on Jackie Walker, you said the film clip I referred to was secretly filmed to take things out of context, you also said you saw that address. It was given at a Momentum training day .

You also speak of Corbyn’s parents and Jackie Walkers husband,

Jackie Walker’s father was a member of the communist party

Jewish Voice for Peace proud to stand in global solidarity against harmful definition of antisemitism and with human rights and freedom to protest
jewishvoiceforpeace.org
First ever: 40+ Jewish groups worldwide oppose equating antisemitism with criticism of Israel
3 Comments
3 Shares
1414

sorrythe link didn't work ,I'll try again

Stormer you said: I never said AS didn't exist in the LP, it exists everywhere what I said was, look at Hansard, the government website and the fully documented investigation into the levels of AS within the parties, and it also states that AS has fallen within the LP since Corbyn's tenure.

Can you supply the link please.

I find it intriguing that a member of Jewish Voice for Peace should choose Stormer as their nom de plume, presumably unaware that Der Stürmer was a virulent Nazi propaganda newspaper.

I have looked at Hansard, nothing about an investigation, there was a debate in the house , starts with a question asking that the house discuss anti semitism, ends with -

Question put and agreed to, resolved.

The only investigation I know of wax held by Baroness Shami Chakrabati , mmmmmm

grumppa, oh

Stormer Hi I should say being a new comer to GN, when you post on here don't expect people just to accept what you say. Your dealing with intelligent, and in most cases well informed individuals.

It is not a forum on which you should expect people to agree with you. It is a sight where propaganda is very quickly disproved with fact. Posters ask us to prove what we say, when quoting our versions of fact. So links are very useful and helpful in understanding fully the points being made especially when you mention something like Hansard or other sources. Just thought this might help you.

Now to my response to one of your post's.
you say:
It would appear that I've opened up a debate that didn't agree with those who quietly want to go along with saying Corbyn et al are all just 'expletive Anti Semite Racists', Hodge to Corbyn, and 'expletive expletive' Austin to Lavery.

Well I think all posters love a debate being opened up. What is your evidence to support your view that Corbyn et al are not Anti Semites? Clearly you see the reasons that some feel he is?

You also say:
I also didn't expect to find on a site dedicated to grandparents a thread which misconstrues politics in a way that could be considered propagandist

Why would you come onto Gransnet and not expect a site dedicated to grandparents, although some are not?

What is your reason for saying that this is a thread the misconstrues politics, can you say how?

You also appear to believe that our discussion on this thread is propagandist Why is that is it because it does not agree with your view or propaganda?

You also say:
^ I'm appalled that such subliminal mind gaming in a world so full of despair is alive and thriving on a site like this, it is a very worrying concept^

Can you explain what is subliminal about this thread?

Can you explain what you mean by mind gaming? This is a very propagandist term.

From what you shared with us it seem's that your world is truly challenging and I am so very sorry to hear of your Husbands situation, having a son myself who has a benign put progressive Brain tumour I have some understanding of the pressures of care. This can indeed make the world look like it is full of despair.

However, just standing back and looking outward is something I find very useful and the world oustside is not full of despair, the Country is doing very, well, almost full employment, the growth is 4% greater than the EU. We are escaping from the organisation that purports to be a Nation when it is a trading organisation. We will cease to be ruled by unelected people. So if your looking for subliminal messages, well I think we woke up and saw the subliminal messages that lead us into the EU .

Why stormer do you find GN News and Politics and this thread particularly a very worrying concept? Surely open discussion, about politics, and in this case a very current and deeply disturbing issue antisemitism inside one of our major Political party's a very worrying concept?

Welcome and I hope you enjoy the debate. I look forward to getting your response to my questions.

A if I didn't feel bullied before I came on here, this is evidence that I am being bullied and it's sickening

Being disagreed with, especially after such long and sweeping posts is not bullying. .

Stormer
^ most of the AS remarks come under the banner of not agreeing with Israeli policy, many Jewish people in Israel also protest it's government let's not forget that fact^

You are talking here about other sites. It would be helpful if you could say what your view is on antisemitism in the Labour Party.

We recently and in earlier post's had a long discussion with PECS on the support of Palestinian Terror groups by JC and that this seems to equate to being against Israel and overflowing into some in the Labour party feeling able to persecute those in their own LP who stand up to and call out those who use anti-Semitic word's comments and actions against Jewish people in general. There is in my view a direct correlation to supporting Palestinian terror groups, who in 70 years have done so little to actually empower the now third, fourth generation refugees across the Levant in host Country's who refuse other than Jordan to absorb or integrate the Arab Muslim Palestinians. Lots of questions.

You say:
Because I am on such forums, and because people post such hateful things, though they are few and far between on the sites I visit, does that make me a party to their crime?

You answer your own question you say "No it doesn't, because I can't stop them coming on websites and posting such horrible things". What I would say that would very much depend on if you support or not what they are saying. If you take away the 'horrible' way they say what they say, you would have to question if you agree with the fundamental ideology they are putting over...is it antisemitic? Do you agree? Do you not agree? These are questions for you and you alone.

You also say:
I have visited some right wing websites, and my word the hatred there is broiling, horrendous. What's happening now is as a direct consequence of our establishment being given carte blanche to turn Jew upon Muslim, Muslim against Christian, gay against straight, black against white, left against right, capitalism against democratic socialism, we are fighting one and other so much we fail to see what those at the top are doing.

Who gives people "carte blanche to turn Jew upon Muslim etc"? We have law's that protect all in this Country, can you explain this very sweeping statement? What do you think the people at the top are doing?

You go onto say:

Whilst we bicker they make the changes that at present are going to make living in the UK worse than it's ever been.

First I think I would prefer not to use the word "bicker". Debate, argue, discuss all healthy if annoying things we need to do to remain a free speaking UK. However, can you explain what you mean "make living in the UK worse than it has ever been"?

You also say:
We either want a socialist government without the interference of big money funding it, or we don't.

This although slipped in is a very big question, it is also a source of where you are coming from in terms of your politics, not a criticism, it just helps in responding.
Please identify and expand your thinking on this. Are you saying that financial support to the Labour Party should only come from the membership and individuals at that?

Or are you saying that we should Nationalise all industries?
Or are you saying just services like fuel, transport, waste water treatment to mention just a few?

You then go to express your desire:
I rather like the idea of us all having a voice for the good of our neighbours, who ever they may be.

How many would not agree with that Stormer!

You then say:

As for proof of who funds who, just look for the information through valid sites, it's there

Can you put up the links please?

You now offer something that appears to support your support of antisemitism in the Labour Party I might be wrong but that is what I seem to get from this comment:

Also I urge you to look at the Dispatches programme from Channel 4, aired on 20th February 2011, Peter Oborne, I keep spelling his name differently, scuse! Look out for Rabbi David Goldberg and Prof David Newman, they will explain the nuances.

I will certainly try to check these out although they are very old and as such not as relevant as they could be to this thread on antisemitism in the Labour Party of Jeremy Corbyn.

As you say here:

I am trying to be balanced here, but I apologise if you believe I'm not.

On this thread and indeed on News and Politics people very soon work out who is balanced and who is not. So don't bother apologising for what you believe in. It comes out as you post. As I said intelligent and well informed posters on here, don't underestimate them!

I have visited some right wing websites, and my word the hatred there is broiling, horrendous.
Please do not judge us by those other sites, which you do appear to have done by condemning gransnetters as propagandists.

Are you based in the UK or in America Stormer?