Labour Party and anti semitism

Statements such as ‘I imagine Margaret Hodge....’ are pure surmise

I don't get your point. It's an OPINION woman! (You feel it's OK to address others in that way btw....)

Of course I am surmising . I began my sentence with the words "I imagine...."

I have no idea why you continue to pick holes...but do carry on.

Exactly my point PECS .

Day6 you have no idea why I ‘continue to pick holes’ ?
If there are big holes of misinformation and surmise in your post, holes that you present as fact then of course someone is going to point that out.

There are those who might accept what you say as the truth, if they cannot distinguish a fact from what is merely your opinion. Simples!

I’m not precious about being called a woman either! !

"If it becomes apparent that a party it becomes apparent that a party holds a political bias against people of your heritage of course you would feel enough is enough - the insult is there and no explanation for feeling offended is necessary. holds a political bias against people of your heritage of course you would feel enough is enough - the insult is there and no explanation for feeling offended is necessary."

can you now imagine how the Palestinians feel in Gaza /WestBank/ Israel or UK?

I see no explanation from OldMeg as to why I cannot be a life long member of the Labour Party because I dislike and mistrust the present leader yet Corbyn has battled against the party leaders since he became an MP.

OldMeg ...you haven’t been on this forum for very long so don’t realise but Annie has been a life long member of the LP indeed and until she realised what Corbyn was like we had a few political ding dongs on here.
You also don’t realise what has happened to the LP over the last few years under his leadership, the extreme left wing has burrowed insidiously into it like a worm into an apple.
Momentum and like minded people ( Marxists, Communists) whilst pretending to be mild mannered
Socialists, have taken over.
You can’t see a problem with that perhaps, if you are as one with their political aims, but many MP’s and LP members, not to mention the wider electorate do see a problem with it, and a very big one.The anti-Semitic views they propound
Are but one unpleasant aspect.

Why are you going on and on about the Palestinian problem PECS is it preferable to you than talking of anti-Semitism within the LP perhaps.

Of course Annie can not support the Labour leader. Look how many of us were hopeful when Blair elected and then he sold us down the river. Look at the debacle in the Tory party over leadership too. I am quite sure there are Tory party members who want her gone. I have no problem with differences of opinion but they must be argued and debated using verifiable facts to back them up. Argue the policies and not the person. I too voted for JC but do not support all his opinions on Europe. Passion and others ignorance can sometimes stop me being as rational as I want. But I try not to be personal.

Very admirable!

Lemon, I had ding dongs with you and a few others when Corbyn stood for the leadership, I really did believe he was a good man, I still remember the shock watching channel4 news and learning that while we Labour Party activists were fighting back after the disastrous 1983 election Corbyn was working against us, and OldMeg tells me I can’t be a lifelong party member and Trisher asks why I don’t leave the party.

At the party conference last year talk of Brexit was forbidden , I have been to many party conferences over the years, remember freedom of speech and members were free to speak on any concerns , leaders had to sit there and take it , not anymore, speak out and your out , the Labour Party is being run the same as parties in communist countries. Frank Field is in the firing line now , a good man who has fought so hard for the most vunerable.

Lemongrove There is correlation between growing awareness & support for Palestinian human rights and the growth of accusations of anti Semitism, particularly in LP now, bcos JC is vocal about Palestine. It is not necessarily the same people!
It is perfectly possible to be Jewish and support the rights of Palestinians to be treated with equality and respect, it is also perfectly possible to be Palestinian / supporter of Palestine and not be anti- semetic . The world is not an either /or place . Jews are as varied in opinions, in class, values, attitudes as any other group. It is the right wing who want to present "one Jewish voice" and many Jewish groups find this an anti Semetic stance. I am a strong supporter of Palestine and I find it important that the voice of Palestine is not silenced by fear of being labelled anti- semetic. I do believe that political extremists manipulate uncertainty and turmoil for their own ends. The world is moving right. I find that a very worrying place to be.

Why did it take two years for any action to be taken against a Momentum member who abused Ruth Smeeth live on tv in front of Corbyn , what did that have to do with Palestine?

Corbyn voted against the party whip 428 times during the last labour government, Frank Field votes one time and faces deselection

Perhaps because it is important to investigate and examine all accusations as thoroughly as possible Annie something I think you will agree should also be extended to Margaret Hodge and anyone else accused of misconduct. Or would you rather she was immediately disciplined for calling the party leader anti-semitic?

Why do so many here dimiss the Palestinian issue so lightly? My posts about abuses of Palestinians have been largely ignored and sidelined including by comparing to the greater plight of Jews in the Holocaust era as though that makes it ok, & effectively shuts down debate.

Field's constituency party has complained about him and has voted "no confidence" in him because of his Brexit vote and the fact that if he and the other 3 Labour MPs who voted with the government had not done so the government would have been defeated. Corbyn has always had the support of his constituency party.

That's a very good question PECS and the perception that the Palestinians are being ignored and that it is impossible for them to obtain justice can sometimes be the beginning of anti-semitism. If the Palestinian question was dealt with, human rights were restored to them and Israel was compelled to comply with all the UN rulings the basis for such opinions would be wiped out immediately

Difference - Corbyn never had the likes of Momentum controlling his constituency party. Now they are in many constituency parties they can do the dirty work leaving Corbyn to look the caring leader.

You don't like Momentum Annie I didn't like Blair. All this business of condemning constituency paries is just another attempt to undermine Corbyn. Do you really think that it is acceptable that 4 Labour MPs enabled this government to stay in power, when if they had voted against them there might well have been a General election?

Trisher, I do not believe Frank Field or Kate Howey chose to vote to keep this government in power, they voted solely by their beliefs.

You defended Corbyn for refusing to campaign during the referendum debates, if he had I am sure remain would have won, he has always wanted out, you never criticise him for this.

They may not have chosen on that basis Annie but that was the result (and arguably most MPs have teams of researchers who would have anticipated the close result). They have kept this government in power.

So they should vote against their own beliefs , Corbyn never has and is praised for it.

Why isn’t he joining with the Libs and calling for a public vote before we are out? He says the same as May - the public voted out.

And again.. focus on the infighting ..doing the Tories and extreme right job for them!

I believe that extreme right (& Tory party) are concerned at the significant growth of Labour membership under JCs leadership and so are hell bent on undermining him personally.

It is not difficult, particularly with social media, to spread allegations/ rumours and to stoke up normal internal issues so they are blown up, disproportionately, to headline size to destabilise the leadership and discredit JC.

I am disappointed that JC has not been stronger/ louder at calling this out. He should have been clear from the start that the LP supports the right of Palestinians to self determination, condemned the current Israeli government's policies, supported of the UN recommendations for Palestine and been clear that none of that equates to anti-Semitism which the party does not/will not tolerate.

Kate Hoey and Frank Field are two of the most respected MPs in Parliament, respected by people on all sides.
I understand, but cannot verify, that 42 members of Kate Hoey's local constituency voted to deselect her. She has a majority of 20,250 plus. Electoral madness.

'It accepted MPs could defy the whip and vote with their conscience, but said this “cannot extend to collaborating with the ERG and DUP” in the Commons, and “propping up a failing government” by supporting it on the customs union. It also criticised Hoey for her views on hunting, as well as issues such as grammar schools.'

This is what terrifies people of all parties about the prospect of a Labour Party under Corbyn's leadership; its attack on free speech and personal conscience. It reminds me of Tariq Ali's comment, many years ago, that 'I believe in freedom of speech but there has to be a limit.'

Corbyn lacks the personal authority to deal with troublesome members, such as Margaret Hodge, a woman I have little respect for, and Ian Austin, a man that I do, instead relying on the strong arm tactics of his henchmen. Replace him with a man of integrity such as Keir Starmer , and disable Momentum, not an easy task; Labour would regain the confidence of the country.
And I am not a Labour supporter.

I do not believe the Board of Deputies of British Jews are part of some far right plot .

I agree Corbyn should speak out, he behaves as if he is in semi retirement . I wonder if he fears an early election , if labour won he would have to deal with Brexit .

A lot of what is going on is also the centrist Labour Blairites fighting for power against the newer Labour membership that have found a party that now represents their views under JC leadership and who felt disenfranchised under the Blairites. I live in a strongly Tory area and our CLP has tripled with young members since JC ..mostly young professional people who identify with the more socialist policies expounded by current Labour. They are not members of momentum....