Labour Party and anti semitism

in no way do I support what is happening in Gaza but....

I condemn what is happening in Gaza

So are you pleased the Labour Party leader supports Palestine against Israeli aggression and wants Israel to fulfil the directives of the UN?
I have never compared Gaza to the death camps of WW2. Nothing is the same as that.
I do think however that there can be parallels drawn between the tactics a government uses to make its citizens view a group of people as less than human.
There is a growing resistance in Israel against Netanyahu extreme nationalism... as anyone on the political left should support.

Suppose in fairness I have to agree , not speaking of Jeremy Corbyn is in fact raising the debate

Just popped back into this thread to see how it was progressing, a great post Allygran and although we do have to deal with/see things in the here and now, understanding how we got to this point is key.
Corbyn needed to have spoken out ( about his old friend, the bully boy) yesterday, as soon as he possibly could.
That somebody could feel so confident about a rant like that at an important meeting just shows the direction ‘of travel’ the LP is now going in.
All Corbyn does, time after time is to say how sorry he is that people may feel offended blah blah.This is not
leadership, in fact he is not a leader in any shape or form.
Things have slid downwards under his control ( or rather lack of it) and even a strong leader would have a difficult time in halting it now.

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My angle on this whole debacle is that there are people who, external to LP, want to stem growth of the political left. How do you do that? You undermine the new leader who has attracted new members. You find nothing in his personal past to discredit so you use his support for a cause and falsely equate it with hating another popular group. We have seen how easy it is to manipulate "truth" re Brexit etc. It is what spooks do all the time. So many rt wing groups happy to appear to support Jewish groups now if it supports their end goal/ bigger picture. There are racists every where, including people who are anti Semetic.. no political party can say it is not happening at all within their ranks. I have met many racist Tories and a few supporting other parties. Let's be honest.

As the discussion is moving on to the cause and effect behind the currents so-called ‘anti-semitism’ debate this is and interesting and very recent opinion from Gershom Gorenberg July 31 at 4:41 PM

Gershom Gorenberg is an Israeli historian and journalist.

“Here’s a story that didn’t make it into the Israeli news media, but should have: The day that the Knesset passed the controversial “nation-state law,” the president of the American Federation of Teachers, Randi Weingarten, issued a statement saying that the law “repudiates the democratic, egalitarian and pluralist values on which the state of Israel was founded.”

Weingarten added that it “embodies a bigotry and authoritarianism that I fear was energized and emboldened by the current U.S. president.”

PECS if they are to be believed then there are people inside the LP colluding in this too.

There is plenty in Corbyn’s past to take issue with!

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Seems his past must be ignored lemon, but I cannot ignore it, he is an activist not a leader

Exactly Annie he is a rabble rouser par excellence, but very little else.

Perhaps we should just leave these two to carry on their back and forth, repetetive discussion?

Attempts to move the debate on is pointless.

Annie and Lemon ..we have got your message; you do not like JC. You do not have to.
My debate is about how do we stop the use of anti-semitism from distracting from the the rise of nationalism and other extreme right policies? A brick was thrown through MPs window in Brent. This has had little coverage compared to when a brick was thrown at a building used by anMP opposed to JC & when all kinds of accusations wereaid at his door. This current incident involves an MP who is a JC supporter and also black. But it appears not newsworthy.

We ? Is that the Royal we or are you forming a clique
OldMeg?

I know nobody on this thread other than from engaging in this discusdion. Stop distracting from discussion of a real issue.

Liking or not liking JC isn’t the point.
Ignoring that the LP do have a problem with anti-semitism is definitely the point PECS ....as your above post demonstrates, turning it away by talking of the ‘extreme right’.

We should ? That is so familiar, brings back memories ?
Oh well, here we go again.

The real issue is the thread title , not Palestine and Israel , but diversions have their uses often when Corbyn and the Labour Party is the thread topic. “ let’s move on”

OldMeg an interesting post. The values of the original founders of Israel were what would now be descibed as far-left in fact many were (shock! horror!) communists. Possibly as a direct result of the fascism they had witnessed in Europe. Kibbutz were originally run on very communist ideals which in many ways were contrary to Jewish culture with children sleeping communally and women working on equal terms with men so that the family did not predominate.

John McDonald has just spoken of graves in Jewish cemetries being vandalised and Jewish schools needing guards to protect them

Your topic thread Annibach draws attention to the persecution of Labour Party members who speak out against JC's support and encouragement of antisemite views within the party, largely as you will know better than most stemming from JC's long history of aligning himself with terrorist groups, amongst them Hamas. As recently as 2017 receiving financial campaign support from Ibrahim Hamami who is described as a vitriolic opponent of the Oslo peace accords and a supporter of the current wave of stabbings of Jews in Israel and a founder director of the pro-Hamas group Palestinian Affairs Centre by Andrew Gilligan.

With this level of involvement with just one that I have found pro Hamas influential supporter and activist, who lives in London by the way, there may be more. Is it any wonder that those who challenge his antisemite views in his own party are doomed to failure, persecution and ridicule.

Since he does not intend to change his political stance and support for Hamas and other terror groups in Palestine, he is hardly likely to acknowledge the complaints of people in the LP. He will and is getting rid of the irritant as he will regard them - those people who stand up to his anti-Semitic views whilst protecting and supporting of those in the LP who have been in dormant agreement with Corbyn over many decades and now in power, they are free to speak of their activist core beliefs and support Corbyn more openly within the Party.

You mentioned the IRA Anniebach. Your knowledge of this time in the LP with the JC activist's, including Ken Livingstone who has been protected by JC until recently, when he had no choice but to "let him go" to save himself from the spotlight being shone on their joint association with the IRA, in the form of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness et al over four decades. Livingstone and Corbyn as young politician attended the illegal IRA "funeral" of Bobby Sands. There is much evidence of Corbyn and Livingstones close association and support of the IRA terrorists and later when the IRA brought the fight to the ballot box in the form of a Political party in order to survive and legitimise their past.

What is disturbing about the Corbyn et al support for activist groups, with terrorist inclinations is that with that goes an unbalanced view of who those groups are against. By supporting one side so entirely, Corbyn et al loose the ability to see both sides of the issue, therefore can only support peace and harmony as seen by one side the side they are supporting. The deceit is what get's to me, the pretence of an amiable balanced hail -fellow -well met sort, when actually all his political life he has been a supporter of violent change in the form of terrorism. That should not surprise me since if as we believe he is, a Trotsky communist, then violent uprising is what he will believe in. Read Marx and Trotsky, both out of another time, with solutions for a time two Centuries ago now. But clearly Corbyn still has one foot in that grave.

Anniebach you know these guys and you have seen through the facade for years. It's good that these things are being challenged by Labour Party members and some in the Parliamentary Labour group, but as you say, there seems little support for those being persecuted for speaking out right now.

PECS This thread is about exactly what we have all been discussing, the persecution of those LP members who are standing up to antisemitism in the Corbyn Labour Party. The reason for the rise of the anti-Semitic attitudes being Corbyn et al's historic and current support for Hamas.

You would like it seems to change the topic to:
My debate is about how do we stop the use of anti-semitism from distracting from the the rise of nationalism and other extreme right policies?

So does this mean you do not believe there is anti semitism in the Labour Party?

Fennel and Trisher do you believe that there is antisemitism in the Labour party?
Do you believe that Corbyn et al support Hamas and their terrorists activity in pursuit of their aims?

Allygran, you have what I lack , the ability to express your views articulately .

Yet I do challenged the Corbyn supporters regardless of the constant put downs.

I care for the Labour Party, it isn’t and has never been perfect but it has always been home to all races and creeds, and I stand firm with my views that Corbyn will destroy the party as we have known it for over 100 years.

It has been claimed on this forum that Corbyn worked with Mo Molam to bring peace in Northern Ireland, rubbish, he supported the IRA, Mo even went into the Maize to speak to loyalists and spoke to the IRA. Even this year Corbyn said he still supported a United Ireland, no PM can say this yet he wants to be PM.

He has today apologised for any distress caused at that meeting he held several years ago on Holocaust Day,he didn’t apologise for what was said. So proof he is still the same back bencher rebel , he must agree with what was said , he didn’t apologise for it.

I never, ever thought I would fear a labour government but with this communist as leader I do.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/201808/medium-650325-lucy-ellman-1.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/201808/medium-857737-lucy-ellman-2.jpg

Can anyone explain this for me?

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