So, our Honourable friends the Brexiteers ...

I don't blame anyone, I think we should each be responsible for ourselves and those who were aged 18 - 35 and who did not vote but wish they had should be taking a long, hard look at themselves and how they feel about personal responsibility.

Sorry, it's too easy to blame the oldest members of society for everything.

half generation
by half generation I mean age-wise, genealogically, not percentage wise before anyone starts quoting what percentage of 18 - 35 years did vote and how.

This young man did not have the vote then - like 1000s of others like him (and 1000s of those who voted leave have died since) :

www.facebook.com/BBCQuestionTime/videos/2027905913914504/

my grandchildren did not have a chance to vote either. They are among the very lucky ones who will have access to free movement because of both sets of grandparents.

This young man did not have the vote then
That is what I thought, like my DGC.
They need to be looking at the half generation above them and ask them why they did not vote. They're the ones who would have made a difference but just couldn't be bothered to get off their backsides and go to the ballot box.

Sorry to bump this thread but I cannot let this pass having asked questions re Switzerland and the European Union etc.

jura2 Fri 16-Nov-18 19:29:32

" In Switzerland, a Referendum to stop Free Movement, pushed by the far right SVP/UDC Party. Same very close result as for Brexit. FRench speaking part voted massively against it, small German speaking rural areas voted for it.

One the Swiss Government realised the massive damage it would inflict on Switzerland, the Economy, international research and innovation, pharmas, etc, etc, etc- it was decided the tiny majority in favour meant it would not be implemented".
----

Really?

Did the ' Swiss Government realize the massive damage it would inflict ' so overruled the referendum result ? Or is the truth the Swiss were reminded it is in the Single Market , albeit a non E U Member, and must comply with the 4 Pillars/Freedoms or else?

I remember one of my posts from Dec 2017 :-

" Even in Switzerland- where the systems is based on public Referedums which are binding- the VERY close result in feb 2014 on the limits to immigration - has resulted in such catastrophic effects on Switzerland in so many ways- that the GVT has not yet implemented it - and is trying to find a way, nearly 3 years later- to implement it in a limited form that will reduce the negative effects - on industry, financial services, massive research projects and institutions, security, Universities, development, etc, etc. "

This has been a point raised on many Brexit threads and we both know the answer why the Swiss Government has not implemented the Referendum result in 2014 to limit immigration .

The EU 'told' the Swiss Government you have to accept the 4 Freedoms/ 4 Pillars OR ELSE! . So it did not matter a jot what the people of Switzerland (plebiscite) voted for in the referendum as a Non EU Member but a member of EFTA Switzerland has to do as the EU Commission/Parliament tells it to..

Switzerland’s economic and trading relations with the EU are governed by a web of more than 120 bilateral treaties that are all linked by a “guillotine clause” – if one is breached, they all collapse.

Like the UK Switzerland was told in no uncertain terms by the EU , ' You will not be able to 'CHERRY PICK' . Hence Switzerland was suspended from full membership of the ERASMUS programme etc. etc. after your referendum to reduce EU immigration.

I believe however Switzerland and the EU are getting closer of late and you have come to some arrangement on the Free Movement situation but am I correct in thinking it needs ratifying?

www.thelocal.ch/20170407/eu-swiss-relations-officially-back-on-track-after-immigration-squabble

At the end of the day what is an inevitable fact no European Country either in the EU/EFTA/EEA will be able to have the people of their country decide what to do (plebiscite) the European Union Commission and Parliament is the source of power and you Remain or Leave . "

On last night's Channel 4 brexit debate, Rees Mogg was vehemently opposed to having a People's vote now that the terms of Theresa May's deal are known, yet-during a parliamentary debate on David Cameron’s idea to renegotiate our membership with the EU in 2011, Rees-Mogg said: “We could have two referendums. As it happens, it might make more sense to have the second referendum after the renegotiation is completed.”

The lies and inconsistencies of these brexiters should be exposed. What a pity that the tabloid press and the BBC keep giving them such a free ride.

We have had a referendum on in or out if we have a second referendum it should be May's deal or leave on WTO terms. May's deal is not really coming out of EU anyway as we can't come out of Custom's Union without EU say so.

If we come out of EU we need to come out of Single Market and Custom's Union meaning we can do free trade deals with other countries without being inhibited by EU legislation.

I would be surprised if May actually goes ahead with doomed vote tomorrow.

the bbc keep giving them a free ride
Not the case on Question Time 6 th December. 4 remainers, 1 leaver.

Brexit deal vote delayed----latest 12.20.

What a pity that the tabloid press and the BBC keep giving them such a free ride.
Was Rees-Mogg the only person on there, then? I didn't see it.
I'm surprised that Ch 4 gave him a programme all to himself to espouse his views without a balance from a remainer.

That doesn't sound very democratic to me - I do think a debate should have an almost 50/50 balance, to reflect the views of the voting public.