Bullying Remainers

The whole sorry saga would never have happened had Cameron not been trying to see off the swivel-eyed bulling Tory ultra-brexiters.

Varian has there a perfect example of rudeness

What is hard to understand is this. If we are a Democracy and a majority outcome decides to leave, why cannot everyone work together to get a good deal for us? Both sides are scoring points, stabbing colleagues in the back, Europe needs us so will not agree to anything, in fact, making it so difficult, we will cave in. What sort of relationship would we have with them if,we went back for another referendum, it is such a ridiculous scenario it doesn't bare considering. Vote after vote trying to get another out one suiting everyone. I sincerely hope Theresa doesn't cave in to this bullying, she is keeping her word her word to the country even though that wouldn't have been her choice. Isn't that what decent people do? Keeping your word, showing determination in the face of adversity and working to the
common good, this will show just who has integrity and we can trust if nothing else. I am disgusted by those in the Tory party throwing their rattles out of the pram. Good riddance,
If they cannot support their leader and come up with anything else they have shown what stuff they are made of. David Cameron was a disgrace instigating all this and walking away, he didn't fall on his sword like a real hero, he ran because he didn't know how to handle what he started, Weak doesn't cover it. Where are the decent, nice people who gave integrity and don't fight in the gutter?

Luckylegs working together can’t work because the country was basically cut in half by a question that never needed to be asked and was asked with no correct information being given to the general public The EU was/ is far from perfect but it’s always better to be within to changed things than outside alone We did good within the ‘club’ and we ve had 70 years of peace but now not only the general public are split but the conservative government is cut in half the Labour Party is cut in half
One of the main culprits along with Cameron was the dreadful lying beer swilling hypocrite called Farage who whipped up all the wobblers with his ‘fake’ information then swanned off fag in hand

We are in the midst of a non combative civil war, if we were a more outwardly passionate country we would be fighting each other on the streets
This will take decades to sort out it is a ruined country to pass to our children and grandchildren

Yes Germany had its first reversal in growth since 2015, mostly accounted for by a slow down in sales to China who are facing tariffs from US, but that doesn’t make them “broke” as the OP says, they are still a much stronger economy than the U.K.
U.K. productivity is the lowest out of the G7. Google it . May would have done better to make her compromises right from the start and tell people they won’t get everything they want, the vote was a close one so we’ll exit but keep as close a relationship as possible with the EU, we won’t cut all ties as it will damage the U.K. economy, then she might have sold it to us. It’s a bit late now.

I don't think David Cameron had much of a choice but to hold the referendum after he failed to renegotiate our agreement with the EU. Surely that failure should have made everyone see that it would never be possible to get a 'good deal' with the EU? It was always blindingly obvious. See: www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/11/brexiteers-only-have-themselves-blame-uk-s-disastrous-fate?fbclid=IwAR2DRv3pc0i7uT3BBbG16RwQAZF68_SNgmAayb6p8gltHFt5OSL4eU9HVk0

This article in the New Statesman is spot on, Nonnie. George Eaton points to the crux of the matter-

"The problem is not that May has failed to deliver on the Leave campaign’s promises – the problem is that no prime minister could have done so. In 2016, the Brexiteers vowed to end free movement, retain the economics benefits of EU membership, withdraw the UK from the customs union and avoid a hard Irish border – aims that were inherently irreconcilable."

Lucky- agreed - but the title of your thread is just wrong.

It is the Leavers, ERJ, who are doing the bullying.

Not sure about that perfect deal though - a middle way that will allow the UK to have all the rights, but none of the constraints, cost or responsibilities, à la 'cake and eat it' has never been, and never will be, on the table.

So at the moment, the choice is either 'Mrs May's deal' and it is very flawed, NO DEAL which would be disastrous in a million of ways- or Remain, which is the best deal ever.

And the people should have the right to choose- now they know. A People's Vote would be a huge risk, I agree-.

Someone today wrote on FB- if 48% want a sweet deal, and 52% a savoury one - serving bacon trifle may not satisfy anyone.

What about Ireland- backstop shorterm, and then??? Scotland, that voted massively remain- cannot accept a deal that will give serious advantages to Ireland and Northern Ireland. I have always been strongly in favour of keeping the Union intact- but if this happens, there is a real risk the SNP would win this time.

The referendum result was to leave the EU so IMO if there were to be another vote (why it's referred too as 'The Peoples' Vote' is beyond me as 'the people' voted first time around) it should be to vote on the proposed deal or to leave with no deal and not to get the initial decision to leave, reversed.

And your answers to the questions above, perhaps?

Smileless please explain your reasoning because it is beyond me.

If I bought something which promised lots of wonderful features and then discovered it didn't live up to its promises I would have a right to take it back. Surely the same applies if I vote for something which doesn't live up to the promises made?

Why are leavers so worried about another vote? If the people decided and are still happy with their decision then the vote will go the same way.

We would never have anyone in Government if we could do that Nonnie ?

But if a Government doesn't live up to its promises we can have another vote for a different Government. Why not the same for the referendum?

Luckylegs I’m not sure if you don’t understand who is doing the bullying or you don’t know who is a Remainer and who is a Brexiteer.
It’s rather unfair to label Remainers as bullies, when it’s clear that Theresa May is being “bullied” by Jacob Rees-Mogg, Steve Baker, James Brokenshire etc who are hard right Brexiteer members of the ERG (European Research Group) members, who are asking for a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister. The Brexiteers really don’t like the Brexit deal she has negotiated.
As Jura says, it’s impossible to get a Brexit deal as good as the one we already have as an EU member.

Ireland, if there is no deal there will have to be a border between north and south, the only comment I have heard about that is that NI will ignore it and leave to to the south to police it as they wish.

I'm not sure how that will work does any one else have any information on that.

The name European Research Group sums it up, that is not what they are about, not research at all they are a pressure group about leaving the EU. Why not label it what it is unless you are ashamed?

I've just read some posts on our local area's Facebook page. The topic was, predictably, Brexit. Of the 58 posts currently visible, roughly 50/50 are pro leave/pro remain. But what was glaringly obvious was the number of abusive names the pro remainers called the pro leavers: scum, moron, pillock, cretin, UKIP loving shit and racist scumbag. I haven't yet seen any pro Brexiter's post reduced to using insulting names. It was so bad that an administrator turned off anyone adding more comments.

Chewbacca, maybe it is different in my area as we are strongly Remain and I find it's the Brexiters who are rude.

Same here Moira nothing rational from the leavers, just the same old, same old, we voted we are right!

Possibly so GrandmaMoira, but it really struck me that those posters who were pro remain were seemed unable to articulate their anger or irritation, about the situation, without calling names. It just seemed to diminish their credibility somehow.

But Nonnie, if you vote for a particular party that gets elected and then doesn't live up to the promises made in their manifesto, you wouldn't demand another general election would you. You'd wait for the next general election.

I'm a leaver and I'm not afraid of another vote, but along with the 17 plus million who voted to leave, I don't expect my vote to be overturned any more than you would, if the result had been to remain.

And if the vote went the same way, would you accept it? I very much doubt it.

I find it very difficult to be a passionate remainder, unable to call leavers anything worse than misguided fools. If we get a second vote I will vote remain again but I am reconciled to leave with no deal, it won't affect us much but I will guarantee the poorest will be hit the worst.

You are so wrong, Davidhs. A no-deal brexit would be utterly catastrophic for our country, our children and grandchildren.

You are right that the poorest (many of whom were conned into voting for brexit) would be hit the hardest but unless you are a billionaire "disaster capitalist" waiting like a vulture to pick at the bones of our economy, it would certainly affect you.

I do not find it at all difficult to be a passionate Remainer. We need a People's vote with the choice between TM's deal, which is much worse than the deal we have, a catastrophic "no-deal" or keeping the great deal we have now, where we can continue to exercise our vote and our influence in the EU to change it for the better.

Smileless but that’s the whole point. General elections come every five years at the most, so within five years you have the chance to vote the government out.
But this referendum is the first voting chance since 1975. A 40 year interval. A lot of irrevocable damage can be done to our country in forty years.

Why do people who do not live in our country think they have the right to advise on our affairs, especially when they live outside the EU themselves.
Mostly Harmless, with respect, I do full understand who and what a Brexiter is. That doesn't mean I agree with their bullying tactics to their leader. Any respect I had for test introverted Rees Mogg has gone.
In the pub yesterday having lunch, it was buzzing with the support being shown for Theressa May, realising we needed the best deal possible now, which did surprise me as it was usually on the side of the remaining view. As long as we leave next March with or without a deal I will be happy. I am not worried about my grandchildren as they will have no choice. I didn't when forty years ago the country agreed to Free Trade and not the loss of our whole identity and having our laws overturned by Brussels.