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"There will be NO renegotiation!" says Juncker for EU. Let us get out NOW!

(290 Posts)
Day6 Wed 12-Dec-18 14:05:39

So, the EU will tie us to them forever and tell us when we can leave, and which trade deals we broker with other countries are acceptable.

I really, really hope there is a well-developed plan B, because our dealing with the WTO has to be the best deal for the UK.

NO DEAL has to be the way forward.

I think we are seeing just how tied and powerless we will be if we allow Brussels to continue to pull our strings.

suzied Thu 13-Dec-18 14:55:14

Its a good job the EU decides on projects - clean beaches , road improvements, educational establishments, our own dear government wouldn't have financed these it would be tax cuts for the rich. We send more to Northern Ireland than the EU, shouldn't we get the DUP bribe back now they aren't propping up the government?

suzied Thu 13-Dec-18 15:00:24

Brexiteers could pay higher taxes to pay for Brexit, Im sure they'd think it was worth it.

Joelsnan Thu 13-Dec-18 15:08:11

The EU do not decide on projects.
Would you allow me to come to your house and put my choice of suite in your lounge without asking you? Its the same for the EU they do not unilateraly decide on which projects to fund. Sadly too many people feel that the EU is some sort of benevolent fund giver which it is not.

suzied Thu 13-Dec-18 15:27:04

Not according to GrannyGravy on previous page. You better tell her that the EU aren't as overbearing as she seems to think. Certain funds can be applied for, but I don't think tax cuts for the wealthy is one.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 13-Dec-18 16:02:46

Councils etc have to apply to the EU for funding, the EU then decides which if any it will contribute to.

Sorry if this offends, but it is factual.

suzied Thu 13-Dec-18 16:36:28

So the EU do decide on projects which as I said is a good thing.

Davidhs Thu 13-Dec-18 17:34:18

For the first time I'm beginning to enjoy Brexit, after loosing the leadership challenge the leavers have lost any chance of control and are throwing their toys out of the Pram.

They can now shout and scream just like two year olds they can't touch her now, but it's going to be fun watching them.

TM can choose her battleground now, play for time, probably the only thing that might stop her is JC winning a 2nd referendum vote.

MaizieD Thu 13-Dec-18 17:42:23

Councils etc have to apply to the EU for funding, the EU then decides which if any it will contribute to.

Like you can apply to the National Lottery for funding but they decide who they will award it too?

How cheeky of it considering that the money comes from the taxpayer. Why can't they decide how it's spent? Let's take back control of our money from the National Lottery!

GrannyGravy13 Thu 13-Dec-18 17:53:16

Good analogy, If I play the lottery it is my choice, I was several weeks under voting age when the country voted to join the EEC, but that is our system.

This is the first time in my voting life I have had the opportunity to have a say of being sucked into The Federal States of Europe.

maryeliza54 Thu 13-Dec-18 18:07:01

The country did not vote to join the EU - why can’t people get that fact straight? We had a referendum about whether we wanted to stay in - we were already in. <sigh>

maryeliza54 Thu 13-Dec-18 18:12:05

Here’s some facts

GrannyGravy13 Thu 13-Dec-18 18:24:35

Maryeliza you have obviously not understood my post, I apologise if I did not make myself clear.

We voted on joining the EEC in the 70's

Successive governments have signed up to treaties, Maastricht and Lisbon without asking the electorate.

Macron, Merkel (and probably her successor) are aiming towards 'The Federal States of Europe".

That is why I voted leave.

maryeliza54 Thu 13-Dec-18 18:38:09

We joined the EEC in 1973 with no referendum. In 1975 there was a referendum about whether we wanted to stay in - we have never ever voted about whether we wanted to join, only about whether we wanted to stay or not. There’s an important difference

GrannyGravy13 Thu 13-Dec-18 18:42:21

Thank you for making that clear maryeliza, I am always ok when it is pointed out that I have got something factual wrong. I was obviously having to much fun at that age, and I am old enough now to have realised that.

petra Thu 13-Dec-18 19:45:48

We have a choice whether or not to buy a lottery ticket.
We do not have a choice whether or not to send money to the eu.

MaizieD Thu 13-Dec-18 20:34:41

Then anaology, petra was about money we have paid over which we have no control.

As we chose to become a member of the EEC and, subsequently, the EU, the analogy holds.

PennyHalfpenny Thu 13-Dec-18 21:13:25

Staunch Remainer here. To those saying that trading on WTO rules is no problem, might I politely suggest that you visit YouTube, search for 3 blokes in a pub and watch the one filmed in Geneva. It spells out in full the horrors that will ensue. After all, if you’re going to advocate such a step, it’s wise to know what is involved. Pascal Lammy, who knows about international trade, said that leaving the EU for WTO is in footballing terms, like leaving the first division for the fourth. That doesn’t sound so great to me.

varian Thu 13-Dec-18 21:44:14

Absolutely, php but the problem is that many folk would never take the trouble to try to learn what a no-deal brexit actually means. They seem to think it means we are out of the EU but nothing changes. How do we get the message across?

Davidhs Thu 13-Dec-18 22:10:01

You can't get the message across to those who don't want to listen.
In any negotiation you talk, you bargain, but at the end of the day either you accept the deal or you walk away. The U.K. is free to walk away and play in a different pond but we want to play in both ponds.
It doesn't work like that you can't have both.

merlotgran Thu 13-Dec-18 22:15:08

JC winning a second referendum vote?


petra Thu 13-Dec-18 22:46:09

Would you explain what 'both' these ponds are.
If I understand your analogy, do you mean that we want to play in Europe and the rest of the world.

trisher Thu 13-Dec-18 23:31:52

petra I didn't vote for this Conservative government but I have to pay tax, please can I have my money back. I don't like the way they are spending it!

MaizieD Thu 13-Dec-18 23:52:45

Sir Ivan Rogers, our former representative at the EU, has made a very recent speech. I would recommend that anyone who prides themselves on their intellectual ability, Leaver or Remainer, reads it:

And no foolish bleating about him being a 'Remainer', please. He's a highly experienced civil servant whose entire civil service ethos is based on the ability to look on a situation objectively from all angles and to assess all those angles before acting or giving advice. His knowledge of the EU is based on years of dealing with it.

Day6 Fri 14-Dec-18 00:09:42

leaving the EU for WTO is in footballing terms, like leaving the first division for the fourth

Premiership and League Two actually - but never mind.

The EU is part of the WTO - the only member which is part of a bloc. The member states abide by those rules when they trade with non EU nations.

So...I think the UK just might be OK outside the EU.

It's not like it's a whole new ball game, to continue the analogy.

We will have to look at "quotas" and new and fair (world wide ) tariffs for imports and exports, but given we are a member already, for the people who know about these things, the economic factors etc, it shouldn't be too onerous a task.

Let's not forget, EU member states will want to continue to do business with us. They are conversant with WTO rules and regs.

MaizieD Fri 14-Dec-18 06:33:24

You didn't read Ivan Roger's speech, then, Day6?