What next?

It's all an embarrassment... we have gone from a respected country to a laughing stock of the world... we cannot call ourselves "Great Britain" any more... more like a sinking Britain.

Why did Cameron instigate this and where is he now?

No other country apart from the vile ones that kill their citizens like Saudi will trade with us.

Solonge, where do you get your knowledge from to decide that this is what will happen?

Here here Lyndiloo, well said, I totally agree with you.

Solonge - Typical comment of a remainer. “All because they don’t like foreigners”!! This so called dislike of foreigners isn’t at the root of the problem at all. Some communities have really suffered due to the sudden influx of migrants. Everyone has rights and this is about far more than your grandchildrens’ rights to go globetrotting around Europe.

The roads, the congestion, the housing crisis. The school places. Trying to get a doctor’s appointment. The nonsense about people only coming here because they speak English. This country is falling apart. There were dire warnings when the eastern blocs joined. Of course they were pooh poohed by the liberal minded intellectuals. It’s happened. Things aren’t right. The prisons are full and i dread to think what this country will be like in 20 years time. It’s not all down to the EU but no longer being shackled to Brussels will help.

Solonge, why do you think your grandchildren won't be able to spend a year abroad, during their degree course when we leave the EU? I am sure that in the future we will be able to work and live in the EU if we want to. What we need to do is train our own people up to do some of the jobs done by others from abroad. I read the other day that people are not eating out so much these days so that those working in restaurants had lost their jobs in some areas of the country.

'Shambles' doesn't even cover it does it?!!! So we have a PM who cannot control her own party, many MPs on both sides who vote for their own ends with no regard to what is in the best interests of the country, a party in government who has signally failed to make adequate preparations for any of the possible outcomes, a dearth of civil servants who know how to negotiate, expats in fear of what the future holds for them, rampant racism, a ferry company with no ships...oh I could go on. I am ashamed of my country. If I were younger, I would be very tempted to leave the country.

Retired65,
Solange is correct about study abroad on the Erasmus grants system not being possible for the young after we leave the EU. It is funded by the EU. Of course the wealthy will be able to afford to study abroad if they have the right qualifications, but young people will not be eligible for the grant after we leave and it will be beyond most people's means.

I worked in this sector until two years ago and lost a part of my job as a result of advance planning for Brexit.

My thoughts entirely lyndyloo!

Mt thoughts entirely Lyndyloo

My thoughts entirely Lyndyloo!

Correct Ginny42, they won't be able to study abroad but this shouldn't worry our MPs they will still be able to afford for their children to go. I still can't see why all our problems of bad roads, NHS are still being based on the EU.

There is no denying the reality that the UK has an ambivalent relationship with the EU now and is likely to have one for some considerable time. But these mixed feelings – which run through us as a people and our institutions too like seaside rock – do not make it impossible to revoke Article 50.

Similarly no one suggests that if we were to revoke Article 50 now we would be barred from re-notifying our desire to leave later, if that was the result of our conversation. That is a decision the then government would be free to take. The warning from the Court of Justice was intended as a bar only on using revocation as a ruse to extend the negotiating period. European law will accommodate the messy reality of where we are as a nation.

It is legally possible. And it is the right thing too. We have to believe that it is not beyond us, collectively and in good faith, to find a way for a national conversation to take place. We must be ready to believe we can go forward together. Because at the end of the day there is nowhere else to go. We must revoke and reconsider.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-article-50-vote-no-confidence-theresa-may-eu-revoke-reflect-a8730461.html

I voted leave. Partially through concern at the direction things were going, both in Britain and Europe. Aside from the corruption and pandering to the multi-nationals, recent years have seen a great and worrying political polarisation in almost every member state of the EU. As an optimist I hoped that other countries would be able to follow our example and true cooperation between countries could replace this failed experiment. However , my fear was that we would not have the leaders with sufficient vision or desire to achieve this.

'Every step appears to be the unavoidable consequence of the preceding one. And in the end there beckons, more and more clearly, total annihilation.'

I'm just so terribly sad about it all. I was so proud to be a European and fear I must now be seen as a little Englander. What is happening to the world? America has turned its back on Europe too and it's every man for himself.

Hear hear Lindyloo from me.

One could argue that the rules of Europe put us in a position where we cannot leave without such upheaval. We are unable to negotiate trade deals with anyone else til we leave which means we are automatically in a precarious situation.
Both sides, Remain or Brexit, are as bad as one another for shouting over the top of each other, portraying things in the best light to make their case. The Press also scaremonger on both sides. You can't believe a word politicians say because they are self-serving.
Never have I felt such despair about our Political System as I do today.

tickingbird
Re your comment at 12.01
I wouldn't have thought you a racist. I don't jump to conclusions and do understand what you mean. I've seen some of that kind of behaviour myself but thankfully, not where I live and you're right in saying that not everyone is like that.
I fear that it becomes awkward to write (on GN) of newcomers to this country as there is every likelihood that you will be shot down and the comment removed.
No-one in their right mind would want to see their home diminish in value due to antisocial behaviour, nor would anyone want to buy in an area which suffered the problems you describe.
I don't have answers and agreed, it's a difficult situation to live with.
Here's hoping that the living conditions you speak about, improve, and police get issued with some teeth with which to bite.

Momof3 Wed 16-Jan-19 17:48:11

" A lifetime experience of being a bricklayer does not mean you are qualified to understand complex issues of economics which is what the divorce from the U.K. is!"
---

So when I asked in response to a previous post of yours:-

"So referendums should never take place or only well educated people should have the right to vote? "

I take it from your answer it is indeed your believe only the educated / economists have the right to vote in referendums. Not sure how not to get to that conclusion , I apologise if I am mistaken.

If Members of Parliament for example were only permitted to come from an academic / economic background I think it would be a sad day and totally regressive and tantamount to being inverted snobbery or patronising .

Or is it only referendums that should be the domain of academics / economists not the plebiscite?

Democracy is about being able to vote to have a say in our country but it's not all about one vote as some people who voted Leave seem to believe. If that was the case we would have been living under a dictatorship a long time ago!

In our independent/devolved countries we vote often we are used to democracy, if there was a referendum there was usually more than one. Overspending of election expenses, interference by foreign countries or huge lies are all issues that cancel out the vote. All happened in the referendum of 2016. It was also an advisory referendum which means the Govt simply asked if we wanted to stay or leave the EU. To take it further it needed to explain their plans, but that never happened. Theresa May cut out that part of the democratic process and went ahead to do Brexit by herself. And she has and is still doing it her way. The People have still not been consulted as we would have been expected under our democracy.

She is now looking as if she is preparing for a dictatorship. We must get used to voting often or we will lose our country. It is incredible to hear people saying they "voted in 2016 and said they wanted to Leave then" , No one knew the details then, there were false promises and huge lies about the EU. Many of those Leave voters have already lost their jobs/businesses at the threat of Brexit. Brexit was not project fear to them, it was a horrible reality.

The tragic thing about it all is when we leave the most vulnerable, the poorest are unlikely to survive the huge austerity expected, it will be like a financial crash. No one knows how long that will last, the longer it is the more it will affect. Food prices will soar, many sick people will not be able to get the medicines they need. This is not scaremongering, our depression n Britain after Brexit is talked about all over the world. But Brits don't want to talk about it!

We had a very special deal with the EU and we were a fairly prosperous country but what our MPs allowed to happen after an "advisory" vote is scandalous. Much is said about our education system, ppl thinking they had a "one off" vote which the Govt must respect shows they know little about out constitution and democracy.

The Leave campaign funded by foreign Govt (query Russia as Putin has been urging May along) promised everything and anything , most completely impossible. Lies. Hundreds of ukip swamped areas that ultimately voted leave at weekends, money no object campaign, They arranged postal votes in care homes, they asked ppl for a santa list of what they wanted after the country left because we would have all that extra money!

Of course it wasn't true so we see ppl today blaming the PM, blaming the EU because they are not going to get what they were promised. The fact is they were lied to, Farage lied, Gove lied, their Brexit never existed. The only people who would benefit from Brexit were billionaires.

But we all have to suffer from that one advisory vote. Those Leavers do not want more democracy want to hand over power to the far right which looks like stopping elections in future. Theresa May never respect democracy from the start, If she did she would have consulted us the people for our votes on the major changes she plans to do with Britain.

Then we get those people completely brain washed and saying they have "given their once and forever vote"., That is ridiculous, most of us vote lots for democracy, sometimes three times a year. But Farage and co has ingrained in these people their vote was forever.

Leave voters represent about a 33% of the electorate. Many have changed their minds and told their MPs they want to Remain so the percentage is really much smaller. But we have a situation now when most of the country is going to be ignored by the PM. She will ignore democracy again, be in contempt of Parliament again, to please the extreme Far Right in the Conservatives, the ERG.

So our country and our people have to be the victims of the failure of our MPs to INSIST on democracy by voting on better information, voting when a plan changes. Theresa May played a game with those who voted leave saying it was the "will of the people" (it was not, she got that out of Germany 1930s). Those ppl began to believe it further eroding our democracy. The Leave vote was not the will of Britain, it was what was engineered by very rich far right people all over the world to misuse our Parliamentary system to roll back the clock at least 70years.

Theresa May should have resigned with the monumental vote against her withdrawal doc two days ago, but she is still there. Which indicates she has possible bigger support from outside this country. Murdoch? Trump? Putin? She fears democracy, as it means it looks like she has operated outside our rules and laws the last two years. She has even challenged the Supreme Court and failed.

Her actions appear close to insanity but her one tool are those people who say in tv interviews "let her get on with it" or "I'm not getting the Brexit I want" ( that was a lie anyway) and the worse one of all, "why should I vote again, I voted in 2016! " To save our country we need to demand more votes and elections to keep our country British, and another referendum to find our exactly what our country wants

Very few on this forum seem to realize the reality of any negotiation, it is not a emotional argument it is a power play, with Brexit the EU hold far more power than we do.
They are only going to agree to terms that fall within their principles.

We can have a soft Brexit on terms similar to Norway, that will mean a customs union with every trade deal approved by EFTA and payments made to the EU as compensation. We are going to have to obey their rules even more than we do now, and we don’t get any say at all on how the EU develops, and I think that’s a bad deal.

Today the prospects seem to have moved away from no deal but the idea of a second vote is still being considered, even though the wrong result could put us back to square one, a big risk. ( as was the first vote)

A common misconceptio, EU officials are elected, I voted in the EU elections didn’t you?
We’ve always had control of our borders. We’ve always had sovereignty, a veto on laws. There will never be an EU army (what’s so wrong with that though seeing the threats from Russia etc). I could go on but it’s all available to research - Google is your friend.

That was a very measured and reasoned post endre123. I read it all. Thank you for taking the time thinking it through and posting it. Truly.

I have 2 points to make:

We really DO have that £350 million (actually 390 now apparently) every week. Surely that would help mitigate some of the worst case scenarios/expensive transition expenses don’t you think?

And regarding more referenda - to quote Brenda from Bristol when she made us all laugh when she said ‘What? ANOTHER one?’. I thought our elected MP’s, government & esteemed Cabinet ministers (with the guidance of super intelligent civil servants) were supposed to guide us through the labyrinth of laws, treaties and decisions?

This is not meant to be a confrontational post in any way. It’s genuine puzzlement.

endrel, I agree. Its so sad.

Couldn't agree more! They forget that they are appointed to represent the people in their constituency who voted for them and think themselves important.