Gransnet forums

News & politics

What next?

(514 Posts)
ayse Tue 15-Jan-19 20:46:40

Where is the vote in the Commons going to take us next. Whether remainder or leaver, this is a disgraceful shambles!

Harrydog50 Wed 16-Jan-19 17:31:45

Why do we need a people vote.. We voted what's it going to be the best of three

Barmeyoldbat Wed 16-Jan-19 17:35:29

Well whatever happens with this mess I just hope we don't go back to to the good old days that so many people harp on about.

Bobbynet1962 Wed 16-Jan-19 17:46:45

Totally agree

Momof3 Wed 16-Jan-19 17:48:11

A lifetime experience of being a bricklayer does not mean you are qualified to understand complex issues of economics which is what the divorce from the U.K. is!

Lancslass1 Wed 16-Jan-19 17:53:46

Jeremy Corbyn wants an Election so the Labour Party will not agree to anything that Teresa May puts forward.
He is not thinking of our Country he just wants to become Prime Minister.

Lindaylou55 Wed 16-Jan-19 18:02:38

More than just our nickname in common Lyndiloo I totally agree. Funny how "Democratic" votes only seem to be accepted by whichever side won, I in my little bubble thought, democratic meant, too bad if you lost we are going with the winning vote!!!!

Lancslass1 Wed 16-Jan-19 18:11:17

Humpty Dumpty.
If people could have voted but chose not to do so it is their fault if they do not get the result they wanted.
I repeat
The majority voted for Brexit
I also think that the majority of people do not understand the ins and outs of all this.
If in another referendum we are given choices I am sure that I for one might be confused.
The MPs have got us into this.
They should get us out.
Quickly.
They should work together not against one another.
As Frank Field said he voted for the motion last night so that we could get a move on.
Good for him.

ajanela Wed 16-Jan-19 18:14:32

I woke this morning and after reading the news I wonder why are the EU concerned about us leaving without a deal. Because if we do they will loose billions of £/€ and many companies in the EU depend on our trade. They are thinking of their own best interests and not concerned about ours.

I am a remainer before you start thinking otherwise.

Orosa Wed 16-Jan-19 18:15:49

So the EU has funded a lot of projects in this country?! With whose money? There's good & bad on both sides of the divide. I voted to leave (the EU eroded my faith in them) but this country's government has made a shambles of that for me. All the major political parties are as bad as each other.

HurdyGurdy Wed 16-Jan-19 18:18:21

So if we have another referendum, and remain is successful, what then? Do we have another go, because the leavers then aren't happy? Do we go for best of three?

And what, exactly, has Corbyn achieved by forcing tonight's vote? What exactly is it that he wants from this?

Does he really want a GE? Does he really want to take up the cudgels and go in and negotiate with an unmoveable EU?

Are these dissenting MPs all saying that Teresa May just hasn't tried hard enough to negotiate a good deal? Are they saying that they could have done any better?

And if we do revoke Article 51, will that just restore us to the same position we were in before the referendum? Or are we in a worse position again? Do we have to leave and then apply to re-join? If we do, surely the EU will absolutely HAMMER us and we would definitely be worse off again.

I make no bones about not understanding this whole shebang now. I cannot understand what the MPs are playing at and it seems to be that they've sensed that one of their pack is weakened and they've smelled blood, and they are moving with pack mentality to destroy it with no regard at all to the bigger picture and the overall consequences of their actions.

I hate all this and I wish the bloody referendum had never been held. No. Actually, what I wish is that when Cameron went to the EU to negotiate a better deal, they'd actually listened and negotiated, instead of forcing his hand.

My view is that the EU is at the root of this whole debacle.

sarahellenwhitney Wed 16-Jan-19 18:19:00

Pecs. How do you view the UK 2019 to what it was before entering the EU.
What have been the benefits that say we should remain. Many of these remainers waving their flags had not even been born when the UK entered the EU.
How then can comparisons be made.
Do they enjoy observing escalation of the homeless now on the increase in our streets.Many from countries having been been lured by the notion UK streets were 'paved with gold'
Young people although having work are not able to afford their own home and many are relying on food banks to feed their families
An endless wait to get an NHS operation to improve
your quality of life. What has brought us to this level?







.

Barmeyoldbat Wed 16-Jan-19 18:33:14

Sarahellenw this mess that we have in the country is not the fault of the EU but our incompetent government who have made the cut backs in funding. Most people come to this country not because the pavements are paved with gold but because they speak english or at least some english.

icanhandthemback Wed 16-Jan-19 18:34:14

Was it really a democratic vote? Some didn't vote and some voted remain
That is actually how a democracy works. You CHOOSE to vote or not. If you choose not to, you obviously didn't think the outcome was important, you do not get to complain about the result. If you vote for the losing side, that is just the way it goes.
Remain campaigners had absolutely no part in the UK-EU negotiations
Umm, TM voted to remain and Jeremy Hunt voted to remain. They may not have been negotiating but they had their fingers in the pie.
It was an advisory vote
Wasn't it made clear that the Government would honour the vote?
It's amazing how ardent Remainers can just ignore what they want to.

allule Wed 16-Jan-19 18:42:55

I think this should be decided by MPs...not by a free vote, but a secret vote. This would be fairly democratic, as everyone had a chance to vote for their MP and they are representatives, not delegates.

It could be very quick...members could be given a week or two to spend in their constituencies, judging views and prospects. They could then vote with their consciences, without fearing the whips or the media.

MargaretinNorthant Wed 16-Jan-19 18:45:27

If we hadn’t spent 40 years paying vast sums of money to the EU, possibly our NHS, our housing stock, our roads etc might be in better shape. And yes I voted leave and would again, and yes I had a father, uncles and aunts in the services during the war, and yes I remember the austerity period that followed the war. But at least we ruled ourselves and if we made a mistake we didn’t have to ask 27 other countries with their own axes to grind for permission for anything.
I have 9 grandchildren, ranging in age between 27 and 14. 3 own their own homes....if they can do it so can others. I get totally sick of hearing about the poor youngsters who can’t afford to buy a house. They won’t until they realise life doesn’t hand you a damned thing, you have to work for it, and not expect to start with everything your parents have spent a lifetime getting

Momof3 Wed 16-Jan-19 19:06:00

Do you really think the government are going to replace the funding that the EU have given countless numbers of projects in the north, wales and Cornwall?

Momof3 Wed 16-Jan-19 19:07:58

The same could be said about the Brexiteer’s and Maybe there lies the problem. If we could have maybe looked at the middle way then this hell show could have been avoided!

Momof3 Wed 16-Jan-19 19:09:05

We don’t have to ask anyone’s permission now, we have always had the power of veto and what has the fact that 3 of your grandchildren own there homes have anything to do with it

quizqueen Wed 16-Jan-19 19:46:52

Ellanvannin
re your comment-you say the EU funds things here, where exactly do you think that money comes from? The EU does not produce money from a tree. The UK is the third biggest contributor, we can just cut out the middle man and fund our own choice of projects. The UK pays over 50 million pounds a day to the EU for the pleasure of so called 'Free Trade' and them telling us what to do all the time. No thanks.

Onestepbeyond Wed 16-Jan-19 19:53:10

@EllanVannin do you mean the projects 'funded' by the eu with half of the money we (the British and us hard earned dosh) gave to them after the eu squandered the other half of it - all by UNELECTED members who want to dictate exactly what each and every one of us has the right to, ie what we see on the internet, advertising and even to who owns the info on us all... we are better off without their backhanded 'funding'-

Boosgran Wed 16-Jan-19 19:54:55

Well said quizqueen

Onestepbeyond Wed 16-Jan-19 19:59:13

The COUNTRY voted LEAVE- so there u go nothing to see here move along...

Solonge Wed 16-Jan-19 20:00:45

If the vote was legally binding....if the campaign for leave hadn't been found to have broken the law...then I would agree. But no on both counts. We look like a banana republic at present! Im a nurse my husband a doctor....do you have any idea how the NHS has been impacted by this stupid, idiotic vote? noticed how many nurse and medic vacancies there are in the NHS right now? we cant plug the gap with our own staff because this dumb government cut student nurses and doctors...and to really make sure, the government cut the stipend the nurses were given whilst training...so now....you pay thousands to train as a nurse and the vast majority never earn over 26k...most much less. Families are being split up, this vile government refusing to promise the EU nationals can stay. Cancer Research programmes cancelled here...excellent scientists work cancelled as the money that came from the EU has been taken back to EU countries and the programmes given to EU teams. I despise any idiot that voted for this....nothing good...absolutely nothing good has come out of this. Unforgiveable. My kids all went on the Erasmus scheme, all could spend a year abroad during their degrees...my grandchildren wont be allowed to do this....all those Brexit voters have done is take away Brits rights of freedom to live and work in the EU....probably all because they don't like foreigners!

icanhandthemback Wed 16-Jan-19 20:02:14

Do you really think the government are going to replace the funding that the EU have given countless numbers of projects in the north, wales and Cornwall?

I think you'll find that as a 'net contributor' we put in more than we get out financially. We may gain in other areas like immigrants doing low wage jobs so it isn't quite as easy to quantify.

I am not anti-Europe, I want an organisation which is less bureaucratic and one which manages its finances properly.

If there was another vote, I would vote Leave because I think that to go back on the original vote would be a travesty.

Solonge Wed 16-Jan-19 20:06:50

so many comments from so many people that haven't studied economics, politics, who know nothing about trade deals and tariffs. Ive heard mention of 'we can trade under WTO rules' well yes we can....but only if we are accepted by all countries..two have refused to accept us. Secondly it can take 10 years to negotiate a trade deal. Jeez...I am horrified by the number of people that think they know about the EU and how it all works! you don't! if we leave without a deal we are finished. No other country apart from the vile ones that kill their citizens like Saudi will trade with us.....and we will be so weak....pathetic. Idiots.