What next?

Bobbynet1962
We vote for MEPs. We don't vote for the Commission. The Commission decides what MEPs vote on. Remainers insist that the Commission is like our Civil Service but it isn't. There is nothing directly comparable in our system but it is more like a more powerful House of Lords than our Civil Service.

There are problems in the EU with the constitution, excess bureaucracy and cost and this is an area in which Cameron could have asked for reform had he gone to speak to the EU prepared. The amount of waste is chronic and the ECB definitely needs serious reform.
If the EU had been prepared to acknowledge that these reforms were necessary, the vote may have been different. To be fair to the EU though, none of these things were put forward by Cameron and his administrative abilities seem to be non existent.

Leaving on WTO terms now seems a real possibility. One important question that no politicians are addressing is how long we would have to stay on those terms, what can be done to mitigate the impact, and how we can reduce the length of time we trade under them. There are many countries who are not in the EU or other trading blocs but are not dealing solely under WTO terms.

They forget that they are appointed to represent the people in their constituency who voted for them

Well, they're not, actually. They are voted in to carry out the programme set out by their party in their manifesto. Their prime duty is to do what is best for the country. At the moment, for many MPs these two things conflict as they represent a party, but a party which has in its manifesto (along with many other things) something, Brexit, which these MPs believe will not be best for the country.

They are also in Parliament to represent all their constituents, not just the ones who voted for them. And a key part of democracy is consideration of minority views.

So our 'representation' by MPs is not a black and white thing. It's complex and people who take a simplistic view of it are not showing much understanding of how Parliamentary democracy works I'm afraid.

People who should know better, such as MPs, but who promulgate the 'MPs have to do what their voters tell them to do' line are being extremely economical with the truth. Or are ignorant themselves and shouldn't be in parliament.

The Commission decides what MEPs vote on.

I know, it made a nice inflammatory soundbite to fool people with, didn't it. The reality is rather more complex.

Try reading this:

www.europarl.europa.eu/external/html/legislativeprocedure/default_en.htm

The European Commission prepares legislative proposals on its own initiative or at the request of other EU institutions or countries, or following a citizens' initiative, often after public consultations. The final proposal is forwarded simultaneously to the European Parliament, Council and national parliaments and, in some cases, to the Committee of the Regions and the Economic and Social Committee.

The ordinary procedure starts with the submission of a legislative proposal to the European Parliament and the Council.

The ordinary legislative procedure currently applies in 85 defined policy areas covering the majority of the EU's areas of competence
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The "right of initiative" lies with the European Commission. It is responsible for submitting most legislative proposals. However, Parliament and Council may ask the Commission to submit proposals and in a few well-defined cases other institutions may come up with proposals.

Parliament (by a majority of its component Members) may ask the Commission to submit a proposal in cases where Parliament thinks EU legislation is needed to help implement the Treaties. If the Commission refuses to submit a proposal, it has to give an explanation.

The Council (acting by a simple majority) may request the Commission to undertake any studies ministers consider desirable for the attainment of common objectives, and to submit to it any appropriate proposals
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In the following very specific cases, the Treaties allow the ordinary legislative procedure to be launched:

on the initiative of a quarter of the member states (judicial cooperation in criminal matters, police cooperation)

on a recommendation from the European Central Bank (certain articles of the Statute of the European System of Central Banks and of the European Central Bank)

at the request of the Court of Justice of the European Union (establishment of specialised courts attached to the General Court to hear and determine at first instance certain classes of action or proceeding brought in specific areas, certain provisions of the Statute of the Court of Justice of the European Union)

at the request of the European Investment Bank

A Commission proposal may also follow a European Citizens' Initiative.

The Commission's proposal is the result of an extensive consultation process, which may be conducted in various ways (an obligatory impact assessment, reports by experts, consultation of national experts, international organisations and/or non-governmental organisations, consultation via Green and White Papers etc.).

A consultation process is also launched among the different Commission departments in order to ensure that all aspects of the matter in question are taken into account (inter-service consultation).

The Commission's proposal is usually adopted by the College of Commissioners on the basis of either a written procedure (no discussion among Commissioners) or an oral procedure (the dossier is discussed by the College of Commissioners) and is published in the Official Journal of the European Union.

The Commission submits its legislative proposal (normally for a regulation, directive or a decision) to the European Parliament and the Council, but also to all EU national parliaments and, where applicable, to the Committee of the Regions and the Economic and Social Committee.

etc.

I have lived quite a long time and witnessed much, but nothing compared to what is happening now. For centuries Britain ran its own affairs with considerable success in fact often leading the rest of the world. Those under 50 have not known anything but life in the EU and so are afraid that Nanny is taking away their safety blanket. All the reasons batted back and forth, stay or leave don't amount to a hill of beans; life will go. People and nations will trade with each other as they always have done. Survival is a very strong instinct. Britain stood alone in 1940 and survived despite those who wanted then as now to surrender.

surrender??!!!

Yes Jack we will survive but under what conditions? You have 'lived a long time' as have most of us on here but do we really want to give our grandchildren a hard time? Do we want them to struggle? I don't.

I shared a tiny bedsit, cooked on 2 gas rings and shared a bathroom with people I didn't know in the 60s but I don't want that for my GC.

And what about Northern Ireland Lyndiloo? The people who possibly will be most affected by a 'no deal' voted to remain. You mention countries on the other side of the world. What about those whose lives will possibly be changed because of a 'no deal' that are just across The Irish Sea?

I'm so sick of this Nationalistic fantasy-land image of Britain that so many Brexiteers hold. NOW, in the real world ,Britain counts for very little. And dont look to the USA to prop us up tradewise. Our only use to them is a military base to get to Europe, which would probably be damaged by Brexit, which is for dreamers not realists.

Exactly I have friends who live on the northern Irish side of the border and the husband works in the republic and they are terrified. Let alone the memories of the troubles, what they lived through and the fight to get the good Friday agreement

I'm so sick of this Nationalistic fantasy-land image of Britain that so many Brexiteers hold.

Me too, Beammeupscottie.

The 'sick man of Europe', wasn't it?

The 2nd world war was won by America’s entry into the war.

The fact that we had allies or do all the Polish, Czech, Indian and all of the other empire forces have nothing to do with it.

Hitler made a catastrophic decision to invade Russia and delay invading the U.K.

We had the best Wartime leader it was possible to have in Winston Churchill.

We didn’t win the war alone and Brexit is a completely different kettle of fish.

Anyone who lived through the war and the financial aftermath should not be wishing that on their children, grandchildren or their great grandchildren.

The Andrew Marr programme about the history of the world a couple of nights ago was about the post war years in Britain, and we were in a terrible mess. We've only recently paid back the money we owed America and yet we're hell bent on committing economic suicide by leaving the EU.

Ah yes Labaik but we want to go back to the good old days. Remember them, before all the employment protection which was forced on us by those unelected people in Brussels and before you were forced to eat straight bananas. Don't forget one of those terrible people drinks too much which is an excellent reason for leaving the EU. How could we possibly be better off when one of them drinks too much? Don't you understand the importance of one man's drinking against the future of our grandchildren?

I think we should re kindle the Dunkirk spirit and see Johnny Foreigner off.

He can eat all the straight bananas he likes.

So you want to inflict misery and hardship on your children and grandchildren, nice!!

Lily, the straight bananas was a hoax. You still haven't seen any.

Nonnie, tongue was very firmly in cheek, obviously.

If we do leave, within 2 - 4 years Germany will follow, then France. Personally, I would rather leave with an agreement than without, but if that's the only way once sonbe it, rather than shackled, we will manage, we have been through worse and without this shambles.

Makes me laugh when people start invoking the 'Dunkirk spirit' (not you, Lily, I know you're taking the mick..) but Dunkirk was an ignominious defeat...lots of people died..we scraped some of our forces back by the skin of our teeth..left all our equipment behind.. And now people want to deliberately inflict it on us...

Sorry Lily it is obvious when looking again! Think I've been brainwashed by some of the stupid comments. Must concentrate.

If we do leave, within 2 - 4 years Germany will follow, then France.

Always amazed by Leavers' clairvoyant powers.

Tell them the economy is going to tank, based on the forecasts of just about every national & international economics expert and they'll tell you no-one can tell what will happen in the future.

Yet they can see with absolute clarity into the future where there are EU armies, Federal states ruled by Germany and total disintegration of the European project.

Marvellous, aren't they?

Former attorney general Dominic Grieve has rejected government claims that it would take more than a year to organise another referendum.

The Conservative MP, who is a supporter of the People's Vote campaign, said: "The timetable put forward by the government is simply wrong and they must be aware of it themselves."

He says another referendum could be carried out "swiftly and within a limited extension of Article 50".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/46874049

MaizieD Just so you know - Angela Merkel announced, a couple of months ago, that the EU are planning an European Army. (I saw her say it on the TV - so it's not my 'clairvoyant powers'. It's a fact!)
As to another referendum ...why? We had our 'People's Vote'. It was to leave the EU. If we did have another referendum, and 'Remainers' won, what validity would that vote have? NONE!
It would only go to prove that we have no democracy in this country!

The Andrew Marr programme about the history of the world a couple of nights ago was about the post war years in Britain, and we were in a terrible mess.

I concur.

European Army, just pipedreams rather than realistic prospects, all countries including the UK have substantial military capability. UK participates far more in overseas campaigns than most, although France does quite a lot, politically, action outside national borders is not popular in most countries.
Europe is most unlikely to get involved in any major campaign without NATO coordination and US involvement. The reality is that Europe as a whole does not have the capability to repel an attack by Russia, ( the only likely aggressor), and are not going to increase defense spending to enable that to be realistic.