What next?

Urmston I never fall out with the friends who have different views to me, why would I? Occasionally there will be a topic we don't discuss because we know there is no point. However, none of my friends call me names or are utterly unreasonable.

What nice posts ladies. I feel much happier now about posting views on Brexit on GN! ???
I had become a little low about some comments on the political forums and began to think I shouldn post on them any more.
I do accept and acknowledge that some of the posters on these forums are super intelligent, clever and well researched. I am nothing like in their league but I do have an opinion and one vote - just the same!

'Some' poster keep asking why people voted to leave.
I've just read Luckygirls post on ' Inside Europe' 5/2 @ 09.47.
It says it all.

On this thread, Petra?

I can't find it.

No, others. MaizieD
I think it was ‘can anyone explain Brexit?’

MaizieD the thread in question is under TV - Inside Europe.

Oops! Thanks GG

Thanks

Luckygirls post suggests that France and Germany have undue influence over a lot (not all ) the others.
Of course they do because they, Germany in particular pays the bills, Southern and Eastern Europe mostly receive more than they contribute. We are also contributors we want less developed economies to get richer and buy our products which in turn expands our economy.
If or when we leave the club don’t expect those countries to look favorably on UK products even if there are not tariffs to make them more expensive. The Japanese car companies based their factories in the U.K. because it gave them easy access to EU markets. These same companies also have factories in many other countries for exactly the same reason - easy access.

No, Davidhs it’s not always so clear cut:

‘The Japanese car companies based their factories in the U.K. because it gave them easy access to EU markets. These same companies also have factories in many other countries for exactly the same reason - easy access.’

My husband before retirement worked for over 20 years as an engineer for an American company with a plant in Salford. At one stage the management seriously considered shutting shop and relocating to France. After several months thinking and planning, they changed their mind. It wasn’t about ‘easy access’ to the EU at all. U

U.K. workmanship was highly regarded (honestly - we really do sometimes undervalue the skill of our workers here) and they were wary of the French going out on strike (something they have form on) amongst other reasons.

These decisions are not always what they seem.

I really don't think that the UK has a monopoly on skilled workers, Urmstongran. Nor is every one of the EU member states addicted to strike action. I suspect that manufacturers who want to relocate to the EU won't find it particularly difficult to find a location that fits their specifications.

Actually, I think that Nissan really took a chance on the UK in 1986, seeing that less than 10 years earlier the UK was supposedly held to ransom by the unions...

I agree MaizieD but just thought it was good to put my view across to demonstrate how good we actually are. No longer the ‘sick man of Europe’.
Sometimes I think we as a country don’t credit our blue collar workers enough. It’s time to be proud of what we do well.
There is always a bigger picture. These multinational companies don’t employ British workers without good reason!

the multinational companies that are leaving?

I imagine Polly Toynbee is not the favourite cup of tea of the Brexiters. But she says it very well- the Dunkirk spirit is not likely to last long.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/05/dunkirk-spirit-no-deal-brexit-crashing-out-eu?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR2xOeEryCEHpHHdBErJAkVim4uPtTY68ahryC0LI1ty00hH2A_X_KChp34

I live in the North East, Urmstongran. I know that the workers at the Nissan plant are extremely good and very well regarded. The NE was one of Britain's industrial powerhouses, it's always had good workers. But its workers are not irreplaceable. They voted Leave and have to live with the consequences of what they wished for.

Unfortunately, so do the 48% of UK voters who didn't wish for it.

And I suppose there we have it in a nutshell MaizieD.

Skilled workers (amongst the 52%) voted to Leave.
Seems ‘stupid’ to the Remainers. Some say on tv well we didn’t vote to make ourselves poorer?

But maybe we did. In the short term perhaps some of us weighed it all up and still thought it was worth that hit. What was even called the ‘Project Fear’ at the time of the referendum - the crash in the housing market, debit cost per capita etc - still didn’t deter the 52% of voters. People were astounded. You’d have to question why they did it.

Nissan workers even now are saying they wouldn’t vote any differently.

And I agree totally that the Remainers get dragged into something they didn’t vote for and now are scared, furious, despairing. It must be awful for them. I can understand.

It split parliament, friends, families. The rift will never heal unless it works out well. Which is a leap of faith. And until then everything that goes wrong will get blamed on Brexit.

But there’s nothing anyone can do about it. We are where we are (sorry all those who said recently it was one of their pet hated sayings). It’s called democracy. Even if we end up on the ‘losing’ side. It’s like a football match we’re the winning team win by only one goal and the losers are furious because the goal was scored by a deflection. But the result holds. They match doesn’t get ‘re-run’ to give a fairer result. Fans are outraged. But life moves on and eventually they get over the hurt.

And yes, some will say but we are playing with people’s livelihoods it’s not a bluddy football match. I can sympathise with their strong hurts. But the result still stands.

What can we do? We because parliament is so split and in fact there are more Remain MP’s than Leave (even though the majority of their constituents voted to Leave - yes I’m looking at you Yvette Cooper & Anna Soubry) - the people who voted Remain have a really fantastic chance that these MP’s will action what may well ameliorate what the Leavers voted for. It is disingenuous in my opinion, but I appreciate it is most likely to happen. Mrs May’s deal (via Ollie Robbins) is a dog’s dinner. She has tried to please both sides and pleased no one in the process. Everyone is howling at her because if she doesn’t come up with something soon, we leave on WTO terms by default as that’s the legal situation. But the Remainers won’t give up without a major fight. So the Remainers can be hopeful even now.

And the Leavers? Sad, disillusioned and deflated because we damn well know had the referendum gone the other way and it was ‘business as usual’ we would never had the power to try to reverse it .... because the Establishment are very much Remain and they would just quite David Cameron’s statement - ‘a once in a lifetime opportunity and we will implement your decision’.

Urmston It’s like a football match we’re the winning team win by only one goal and the losers are furious because the goal was scored by a deflection. But the result holds. They match doesn’t get ‘re-run’ to give a fairer result. Fans are outraged. Yes, but when the referee's decision is challenged because he was wrong he has to change it when VAR proves he made a mistake! Did't know I knew that much about football

^ everything that goes wrong will get blamed on Brexit.^ I don't think so, I think the Leavers will say it is all the government's fault and nothing to do with Brexit and the Remainers will blame Brexit

In the short term perhaps some of us weighed it all up and still thought it was worth that hit.

This is what mystifies me and all the Remainers I know. What actual harm was the EU causing to people who voted Leave? We have tried for the last 2 years to pin this down but no-one has given us an answer. Our latest attempt to get a poster to tell us about the 'petty EU rules' that have blighted her life has gone unanswered.

We've heard a lot about possible potential harm; being involved in the possible crash of the euro (when, quite frankly, if the euro were to crash it would cause harm internationally whether we were in or out), conscription to an EU army, when in all the discussions I have seen there has never been a sniff of possible conscription; being overrun by EU immigrants who take our jobs (eh? when we keep being told we have 'full employment?), clog up our health services (when most EU immigrants are young and healthy and don't need our health services), hog our scarce housing resources (when our governments have made no effort to increase our housing stocks), put pressure on our schools (unlike non EU immigrants I suppose?) when our government has slashed spending on schools, and made it difficult to increase provision, for purely ideological reasons. It seems to me that the campaign for Leave was one great Project Fear and it worked a treat.

Positives? We're offered nothing but the 'hope' that we'll be alright in the end.

This wasn't a bl**dy football match, Urmstongran. if your team loses it can play again next week and try to win. And, as nonnie has pointed out, if a team is caught cheating it can be rectified. The damage done to our country is apparent right now and will take years and years to heal; if it ever does. It's far too big an issue for a shoulder shrug and 'better luck next time'.

I could say more but I have to go out. I know you're trying to be conciliatory but it's not doing anything for me. Sorry.

Thank you too MaizieD It’s good to talk rationally whatever our views.

I believe we have ‘a special place in hell’ anyway now -
Donald Tusk.
Oh heck.

Urmstongran, hello and kind regards.

I am so excited to leave on no deal and for Britain to be great again. All will be well.
I have no problem when people with another view decide to rant at me, I find that hilarious most entertaining.

The majority who voted, voted out and we will leave. Time for me to celebrate.

Best regards Andy

As a strong remainer Andy I too want Britain to leave with no deal. I will be delighted to let you see the consequences of what you voted for and even more delighted to say 'told you so'.

Excellent post MaizeD.

Framilode....a very peculiar statement from you , would you really like to see no deal simply to feel smug for five minutes? Bizarre!

Urmstongran- you should really quote what Tusk said in full.

and I totally agree with him. It was criminal in my view. And will have a massive negative effect not only on the UK, but the whole of the EU.

Tusk seems to be a major foot in mouth kinda guy!
Strange when you consider his position ( but then so is Junker) maybe it’s catching.