Merkel clearly calling for an EU Army

I find it frightening POGS, I am not anti Europe but I am anti the ever increasing fedarilsm which is being drip fed from Brussels.

Our fantastic armed forces have always co-operated and had joint exercises with forces from all over the world. I am extremely sceptical about the need for an European Army, who will ultimately be in control.

The EU has a reputation for being long winded and taking an age to negotiate on many things, you cannot run an army with 27 "bosses".

Oops "federalism"

Granygravy
They won't be running an army with 27 'bosses'
Germany will say jump and the others will say, how high.
I liked Marine la Penns quote on The signing of the treaty an act bordering on treason

Petra I think you are correct.

I was repeatedly told I was an idiot for believing that an EU army was being instigated. Seems a very dangerous proposition - a bit like youngsters murdering someone with a knife they ere only carrying for protection.

Does Germany feel it’s losing it’s grip on the EU and are determined to maintain it at any cost? Frightening thought!

Sussexborn I have also been told on this site that “an European army is nothing to fear” and that it is a figment of my imagination.

Yes GG13 I have been sneered at by a couple of posters for suggesting it will happen.Am sure I can find their
Posts if they deny it. Of course, as Petra says, Germany will be calling the shots along with poodle Macron.

Hopefully, before this happens, a few countries will come to their senses and leave the EU.

Lemongrove
Only 'a couple'

A couple of the worst ones Petra ?

Germany has been absorbing large portions of the Dutch army into its own command for a few years now. Germany hasn’t been in a position for some time to commit enough of its budget to expanding its own forces. They have just found another way of doing it on the cheap. The Dutch Army now has, apparently, only one mechanised brigade, plus special forces, support and headquarters staff under its own command. The rest is effectively under German command.
The French have blown hot and cold about NATO for years. They were founder members and then pulled out in 1966 because they felt that their military status was being undermined by the larger member nations. They did, however, maintain observer status (this is called having your cake and eating it) until 2014 when they recommitted their forces. One can only assume that they, too, will be happy to be absorbed by the German military amoeba eventually.

No doubt this has been brought up before, but I don't come on to the political threads that often any more. The federalist Franco/German vision of the direction the EU intends to take is not always shared by other member states, Brexit having taken centre stage for so long tends to mask the in fighting taking place between the main players and lesser ranked countries who are beginning to show a certain amount of discontent with the directives that are imposed upon them.

From an article in today's Guardian. Luigi Di Maio, Italy's deputy PM told a rally in central Abruzzo region on Sunday "If today's people are leaving Africa, it's because some European countries with France taking the lead, have never stopped colonising African states" He called on the EU to sanction France for "impoverishing Africa" and for migrants to be taken to the southern French port of Marseilles instead of Italy.

As we know Italy is not the only country who have demonstrated that they will not be dictated to by Brussels, most of Eastern Europe do not follow directives that they feel are not in the interests of their country.

I wonder therefore with so many disparate points of view, how that will bode for a European army.

The raison d'etre of having a united Europe we are told was to prevent anymore wars on our continent, borne out of the rise of fascism in Germany and seeing how such an aggressive political movement ultimately manifested itself. I sometimes feel there is an irony in that the more federalism the EU strives for, the more nationalism rears its head and the ramifications of rampant nationalism tends not to bode well for a peaceful existence.

Greyduster and Terribull

Good posts.

TerriBull
As you say, you post very often on the political threads.
But what a good post when you do.
'Some' posters do seem unaware of what's going on in Europe but there are many of us who have been watching the 'situations' unfold for some time and it's not looking good as your last paragraph refers to.

May I just add that it was actually 2009 when the French recommitted - on the 60th anniversary of NATO. Apologies for the error.

One of my concerns at the time of the referendum was, among other things, the murmurs of a European Army. I was told very briskly that it was a complete fantasy and my concerns were of my ill informed imagination. Really?!!!!

But if we were in the EU we could veto it. And you’d only fear an army you aren’t part of surely? So leaving the EU when you are convinced there is going to be an EU army doesn’t really make sense.

Crystaltips

The UK has been against the calls for an EU Army/Defence Force. This is not a new discussion it is simply the case some have chosen to deny , call the proposition a fantasy , a lie. Others have chosen to see the proposition as a distinct possibility. Since Article 50 was triggered it appears the voices from Junker/Merkel and Macron have raised the stakes .

The UK/ Malta / Denmark are the only EU Member States not to sign up to ' PESCO '

Over the period of time I first noted the calls for an EU Army/ Defence Force/ Alliance within the EU I have been concerned over the roll of NATO and our defence in the UK. To be fair the comments from NATO can be contradictory sometimes.

It is already known that the UK pays it's share to NATO whilst other EU Member States do not. PESCO and the Member States involved will have to either increase their countries defence spending to fulfill their obligation or take it from their NATO contributions. Defence is not cheap. As with any Defence Organisation somebody has to head it up and so far all I see is an increased roll for Germany and France.

www.eda.europa.eu/what-we-do/our-current-priorities/permanent-structured-cooperation

The fact remains the use of the term ' EU Army ' is now openly being voiced and it will be difficult to put it back in the bag.

POGS
Now we know why Germany have 'long pockets and short arms' when it comes to paying their dues to NATO.

But you havent answered my points- surely as EU members we could veto this if we didn’t like it?
Some commmentators have called this ( project) fear , to quote -
“Merkel was also attacked at home for falling into the trap of appearing to endorse, at least in theory, some of Macron’s more high-flown ideas about a joint eurozone budget, banking union, common taxes and European army. Alexander Gauland, leader of the far-right Alternative für Deutschland party, said Macron was trying to grab “German money”. Such claims are nonsense. So, too, is the idea put about by Eurosceptic media in Britain that Paris and Berlin are conspiring to seize full control of the EU and impose a new, shared hegemony at the expense of smaller states. The real problem with the new treaty is that it is mostly a bland, unambitious fudge.”
“Thank goodness Macron and Merkel, for all their faults and weaknesses, can still see the bigger picture.( peace, security, a bulwark against the USA- China, Russia) .These days, for the most part, Britain’s small-minded leaders cannot see beyond their rather stuck-up noses.” www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/22/merkel-macron-europe-treaty-france-germany?

We might have to practice putting one arm at 2pm.

'^increased roll for Germany and France^'?
Let's hope they learn to lie down first.

And you’d only fear an army you aren’t part of surely?

I'd fear an EU army and so would others. Our own forces and our allies in Europe would rally should we ever be threatened. The power of Brussels, plus the fact that we seem to hold very little sway within the EU makes the thought of an EU army somewhat terrifying - not because of it's dubious might, but because that army would be directed by military generals maybe not to our liking, or working towards the good of the UK.

Many EU administrators, committees and figureheads aren't to our liking or to the liking of many of the dissatisfied member states in the EU. Imagine the power military officers would wield. Why would we sacrifice our troops/forces to an unknown but extremely powerful strategist?

The EU wants to create a power bloc. I find that disturbing.

surely as EU members we could veto this if we didn’t like it?

Surely??? Surely???

You must be joking. There is nothing 'sure' about the machinations of the EU now.

You have much more faith in our power of veto within the EU, or of even being heard, than I and millions of other UK residents have. Give Brussels military power as well?

No way!